DK avoidance, rotations and frost spec.

[Oniyoh]

Hey guys,

I am usually a paladin tank, and I know a decent deal of tanking know how in that department, but recently I have been working on a Death Knight alt, and of course I had to make him a frost tank so I have to ask a few questions.

First off, what is a good amount of avoidance for a death knight who is raiding 25 man naxx? I have seen a death knight that have had 40k hitpoints raid buffed walking into naxx, having 30% parry and 21% dodge (at least that is what he told me) but my healer friend has complained that one hit from certain trash takes off about 25% of his health. I think something is wrong, would you guys mind informing a neophyte death knight what is acceptable numbers for DK avoidance?

Another question I have to ask is frost spec rotations. Now I have seen a few good rotations, on single target I usually do IT>PS>BS>BS>HB and in AOE situations I do IT>PST>BS>HB>PS I know my AOE is choppy right now, but I think with the addition of DnD, I should be fine. (My death knight is level 59, the tanking experience I have is running a friend through mara, so I am limited in moves.) Now what I do notice is that I often have to refresh IT and PS, that is normal right? Let's say I am using my single target rotation, would it be effective to just rinse and repeat after my HB (or Obliterate, when I get it)?

Last question I got for you guys is some understanding of talents. In particular is it worth taking icy talons and imporved icy talons? I know the faster I hit the more KM procs I get going which is good, but is it good enough to spend the talents points in it? For a frost rotation is Epidemic worth taking? How about Morbidity?

Thanks for the advice in advance!

[Typhus]

First off, there are 3 talants that you always take as a tanking DK First one in each tier. So your friend with 30% parry and 21% dodge is that before or after Blade Barrier.. if its after, his avoidance is abit low, maybe regem to get more avoidance? There isnt rly any need to have more then 30k hp unbuffed in Frost Presence. In raid you will get about 37k buffed or so. Try to work in gems to flatten out the avoidance abit.

When it comes to Singletarget tanking its nothing more then bash yourhead to the keyboard and the magic will happend.. or well its little more advanced then that but not much. I usualy go with IT PS BS BS OB, OB OB IT PS.

on AoE i always start with DnD IT PS PL this since DnD does massive amount of Threat

Icy talons is a flavour thing, i use it. Someone may not its more or less your playstyle. Plus its a raidbuff which ofc is very nice. The KM is set to a 5ppm now so it rly doesnt matter how fast you hit you will only get around 5 proccs per minute from it.

[Inaara]

Just had a discussion on rotations and spec here:
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f175/...questions.html

The avoidance seems about right, dodge can get alot higher and the parry % he gave you has to be with the Blade Barrier buff. In my avoidance gear I'm over 30% dodge and about 30% parry.

Answered your second question with the link.

Imp Icy Talons is really a personal choice. Any shaman can drop WF totem and although it might not be as good as Imp IT it's still something. It also allows you to spend 6 talent points elsewhere.

[Satorri]

You actually don't need to be too concerned with your avoidance going into Naxx, really all you need to do is make sure you're wearing tanking pieces of the appropriate level. Level 78-80 blues or better completely before you start raiding Naxx is a very good idea. Gemming and enchanting is very valuable and will add a good margin, but that works pretty well for whatever personal flavor you want to bring.

If you want a ballpark of where that all can get you though, I'd guess you could get, unbuffed, in frost presence, pre-procs, about 26k health, 17% dodge, 17% parry, and 18+ expertise. Give or take, depending on which pieces you get you will trade off on that scale.

Currently, the cap I see most DK's reach in the best gear available, again unbuffed, frost presence, pre-procs, is in the neighborhood of 33k health, 27% dodge, 24% parry, and 25 expertise, again for a middle of the road enchant/socket balance.

That's all rough approximations, but something in the relative order. Every DK picks what is important to him and can focus on that, and if you're lucky enough to clear content regularly with a consistant group, you can also collect more than one set that gives you the ability to swap pieces for effective health, avoidance, threat, etc.

[Eemo]

As far as threat goes, if you're blood/frost i've seen great single target threat from kind of a weird rotation; Rune Tap, IT, OB, OB, BS, FS till zero RP. Obviously that's with Rune Strike macroed into the abilities. The BS at the end will swap your other blood rune to a death rune, so you only need to Rune Tap for the first rotation as long as you have at least one death rune up. Unless they buff PS, I don't really see much reason to use it in a single target setting.

If you're running glyphs of oblit/IT/FS, it really pours out the threat and the dps. I average between 1800 and 2100 dps single target tanking with that rotation, with just a titansteel destroyer and no ilevel 213 gear.

This is with a 23/43/5 build; if you're just learning to tank as a dk, especially coming from a tankadin, you might transition easier with morbidity. Personally, I feel like it's kind of a crutch for frost tanks, although I might need it again with the pesti nerf in 3.1.

YMMV.