Avoidance vs EH (DK Tank)

[Auschwitz]

Hi all

My armory:The World of Warcraft Armory

As you can see my gear is not bad, atm got 32k hp unbuffed with frost presence, 25.29% dodge and 18.23% parry which goes up to 28% or so with Blade Barrier: So basically at a regular raid fight(fully buffed etc, no cds active) I get 40k hp aprox 27%dodge, 29%parry, dont remmeber it exactly.

So I reached a point that Im like, What am I now exactly aiming for? I mean my Hp is quite ok, my dodge/parry is ok, so what stats should I be looking for?

Should I put more hp on it? Change most gems to 24 stam gems
Should I work on my avoidance? I need explanation here, recently I have been reading alot of posts about Diminishing returns and im kinda confused with all the Ideas.

If Im going for more avoidance, what should I be doing? Putting a heavy def rating gem(So I can be capped) and switching my SG rune for the 4% parry rune?

There are also some other thoughts that randomly come into my mind:
-Is the 4% parry from the rune subject to DR(whatever that actually means)
-Also is the 10%parry from blade barrier something to worry about?
-In case I go for more avoidance should I go for dodge?Parry? Or both?
-Is def after 540 actually any worth?
-Is there actually a defenition for Diminshing returns and how they work?

Glad I finally did this brainstorming of mine been haunting me for some days now and I dunno exactly what to do. As you can see many stuff is on my mind right now.

Also, if I didnt got something clear enough or my ideas and concepts about stuff are wrong please say or correct me.

This is my first tanking character so thats why all the questions :P

Could use links for posts, armory's, guides etc... Thx all

[TheYanger]

So I reached a point that Im like, What am I now exactly aiming for? I mean my Hp is quite ok, my dodge/parry is ok, so what stats should I be looking for?

Should I put more hp on it? Change most gems to 24 stam gems
Should I work on my avoidance? I need explanation here, recently I have been reading alot of posts about Diminishing returns and im kinda confused with all the Ideas.

If Im going for more avoidance, what should I be doing? Putting a heavy def rating gem(So I can be capped) and switching my SG rune for the 4% parry rune?

There are also some other thoughts that randomly come into my mind:
-Is the 4% parry from the rune subject to DR(whatever that actually means)
-Also is the 10%parry from blade barrier something to worry about?
-In case I go for more avoidance should I go for dodge?Parry? Or both?
-Is def after 540 actually any worth?
-Is there actually a defenition for Diminshing returns and how they work?

Go for stamina, your avoidance is good, your health is a bit low for a blood tank.

Diminishing returns are very simple - RATINGS that give you avoidance, diminish in usefulness as they go up. Flat percentages don't affect this, and aren't affected. So the 10% from blade barrier, the stoneskin gargoyle enchant, swordshattering, those are all unaffected. Because of this, parry is terrible for DKs - parry gives less return per point than dodge even to other classes, but as DKs we gain insane amounts of parry rating already from Forceful Deflection, so try to avoid it where possible, but a lot of it can't be helped.

Defense is indeed useful over 540, it keeps doing exactly what it says it does when you mouse over it.

Hopefully that answered most of it for you.

[Auschwitz]

Thanks a lot, you definitely helped me clearing lots of stuff going on on my mind about diminishing returns.

So you r suggesting that I go for more hp ok then but what about defence rating? You also say that its good but how good? Like is it worth swapping the +def enchant on cloak for 15 agility or so for +Threat etc or is it better to keep it? I dont need it for having 540 def.

And how much hp +/- should I be aiming for? Like 35k or so?

[bloodomen]

Personally, your health isn't to low, in armory it shows 29k but that is Before Frost presense and alot of people miss that. Now, since the changed IBF to scale with your defense, more isn't bad because you will take less damage with IBF, and also gain dodge & parry rating from it (not a bad deal) I am also a Blood tank and will post my armory for you to compare and if you have any added questions, just post.

The World of Warcraft Armory

[TheYanger]

Top end geared tanks will break 40-41k raid buffed, non-consumables even as a frost spec, so for a blood spec you can hit a noticeable amount more than that. I'd say you should be shooting for at least like 33k unbuffed as blood in frost presence.

[Vodai]

Heh, well you look very well geared. My only note would be to swap out the sigil for some dps, since you're already at def soft cap.

[Auschwitz]

So:
-I should get more hp (probably changing more gems to 24 stam gems)
-Def after 540 its usefull but its not worth putting too much effort to it other if the item has it
-Diminishing returns means that the more dodge/miss/parry you have the more rating points it needs to go up 1%

Well, with that you guys answered all my questions I think but feel free to add more info.

[Dfrey]

I am also a blood tank but I don't think I am understanding how having more parry is going ot negatively effect a dk's defence ability? Isn't it a variable factored in since we cannot block nor stack rediculous dodge like warriors/ pallies or the druid bear? I am not quite as geared as some others but I have 30.9khp and 540 def unbuff - how is it that having 23% dodge and 16% parry (pre-blade barrier) is not as great as stacking more def/ dodge/ hp? My pally used to be a tank and for him it was def/block/hp - how are the calculations so different?

[Vodai]

It never is negative, but it will be less effective due to diminishing returns point for point over other stats you can gem for. The easiest rule of thumb is don't worry about gem/enchants for parry.

I am also a blood tank but I don't think I am understanding how having more parry is going ot negatively effect a dk's defence ability? Isn't it a variable factored in since we cannot block nor stack rediculous dodge like warriors/ pallies or the druid bear? I am not quite as geared as some others but I have 30.9khp and 540 def unbuff - how is it that having 23% dodge and 16% parry (pre-blade barrier) is not as great as stacking more def/ dodge/ hp? My pally used to be a tank and for him it was def/block/hp - how are the calculations so different?

[TheYanger]

Right, as noted it's not that parry is 'bad' it's that it's bad relative to other stats you can gain. For instance, Kyzoc's Ground Stompers are best in slot boots despite having a lot of parry, not because of it.

Another obvious example, I see TONS of DKs running around with Rune of Repulsion, ilevel 213 parry trinket with clickable +parry, when in reality because it's 213 it has higher numbers, but the dodge version (Valor Medal of the Third War, from badges of heroism) will add more avoidance flat out. It's not even close, the dodge trinket TRASHES the parry trinket, I just checked after diminishing returns on my live character, and according to tP Calc it's over a .5% avoidance difference on the two items for the passive effect, and 1% on the activated.

[Laidback]

Right, as noted it's not that parry is 'bad' it's that it's bad relative to other stats you can gain. For instance, Kyzoc's Ground Stompers are best in slot boots despite having a lot of parry, not because of it.

Another obvious example, I see TONS of DKs running around with Rune of Repulsion, ilevel 213 parry trinket with clickable +parry, when in reality because it's 213 it has higher numbers, but the dodge version (Valor Medal of the Third War, from badges of heroism) will add more avoidance flat out. It's not even close, the dodge trinket TRASHES the parry trinket, I just checked after diminishing returns on my live character, and according to tP Calc it's over a .5% avoidance difference on the two items for the passive effect, and 1% on the activated.

Honestly I would rock both of these.
Too bad the repulsion has never dropped once for my guild...and the inevetible defeat wen to my buddy who decided that he wants to be dps now...I so wish we could trade weapons.

[ivypapa]

I am an unholy DK and place a high value on bone shield and anti-magic zone for tanking. Am I placing too much importance on these - what are you gaining by going blood?

This is me

[malevevely]

Blood has an insane amount of cds. It lacks the passive mitigation of bone shield etc. but it does have VB(30s)>IBF (15s)>monarch crab(10s) that leaves only 5s out of every min that a blood tank will not have some type of cd up. There are also longer cds like a second trinket, lich, and AMS that can be used as filler in a pinch.