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Thread: Heroic Strike & Rage Concerns Heard

  1. #1
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    Heroic Strike & Rage Concerns Heard

    Couple comments from Ghostcrawler this afternoon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler, Lead Systems Designer
    [blizzard]I think there are some quality of life issues we can improve for warriors. Heroic Strike is definitely one of them. It does its job in letting you convert excess rage to threat without consuming a global cooldown, but it requires a lot of extra button pushes. It is something we are discussing.[/blizzard] (Source)
    In response to Tanking Topics #2: Rage:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler, Lead Systems Designer
    [blizzard]A good discussion that I would like to see get more attention.[/blizzard] (Source)

  2. #2
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    That is really good to see. Next up, avoidance vs rage and shouts. :-P

    We'll get some of these wonky mechanics fixed yet!

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    well done TankSpot. Keep it up.

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    Tankspot must have a direct line to god. While we're at it let's get something even awesomer. . . 20 min shouts. . . . titan's grip an 11 point talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leytur View Post
    Tankspot must have a direct line to god. While we're at it let's get something even awesomer. . . 20 min shouts. . . . titan's grip an 11 point talent.
    Correction: Make Titan's Grip a core ability, and make Devastate work with 2handers. Also, up Devastate's damage back to 80% of the Mainhand's damage

  6. #6
    Some of us warriors don't want to be completely OP (else we would have rolled a DK) but it is good to know that they are atleast aware of some of the issues warriors are currently facing. Once the PTR comes up i am really interested in trying out the new warrior rage mechanics for stance switching. Personally it looks great for pve but looks kind of disheartening for pvp, since most of the time i am running really low on rage and if switching to Spell Reflect is going to take 25 rage ,with TM, or intercept is going to take 20 rage i forsee this as being a problem but i am more than willing to test out the new system on the PTR and give some feed back on it after actually trying it out.

  7. #7
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    It seems the warrior class could do with an over all change. The problem is the warrior is what it is purly based off these mechanics that are not perfect. Most classes have it easy. We must moniter and modify everything.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by galisaa View Post
    It seems the warrior class could do with an over all change. The problem is the warrior is what it is purly based off these mechanics that are not perfect. Most classes have it easy. We must moniter and modify everything.
    While there are some issues, I rolled a warrior because I enjoy the warrior mechanics. Playing a warrior is very interactive, and I would be hate to see our class homogenised. The fact that warrior tanking is more complex than other classes is what makes it appealing to a lot of people.

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    Good job tankspot. Now next tell them to increase shout durations

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by galisaa View Post
    It seems the warrior class could do with an over all change. The problem is the warrior is what it is purly based off these mechanics that are not perfect. Most classes have it easy. We must moniter and modify everything.
    Well, not quite.

    First of all, I wouldn't underestimate the complexity of other classes when it comes to tanking.

    Second, these options are probably a major attraction why people play warriors; back in the BC, tanking on my paladin bored me to tears.

    Third, the biggest culprit was probably the old Shield Block. Hitting it every five seconds was a mindnumbingly boring activity that had next to zero effect on the fun of the game. And while I wouldn't hate being able to do without Heroic Strike, threat rotations are and will be a fairly fundamental part of the game unless Blizzard makes threat ignorable (which they don't seem to want). Currently, unless you're in a real need to minmax your threat, you can probably just macro Heroic Strike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    Couple comments from Ghostcrawler this afternoon:
    In response to Tanking Topics #2: Rage:
    Yes, they've replaced the shield block spam with the heroic strike spam now.

    Just a thought... If they removed the -10% to damage by being in defense stance it would certainly help our threat.

    On personal experience, I'm noticing as our guild dps acquire better gear their damage is scailling faster then my threat out put. With new gear coming out in 3.1 I'm not sure I will be able to hold threat as easily as I have until this point. I'm not sure what the solution should be.

    On another note, I'd like to see some spell mitigation tied into defense rating. I know this currenlty may only be a benifit to pvp, but if we had some spell damage mitigation it would allow more interesting boss encounters without having to relie on gimmicky spell resist gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daavos View Post
    On personal experience, I'm noticing as our guild dps acquire better gear their damage is scailling faster then my threat out put. With new gear coming out in 3.1 I'm not sure I will be able to hold threat as easily as I have until this point. I'm not sure what the solution should be.
    I kinda miss the days when good rogues and destro/festro warlocks were riding my ass on threat and I had to go all out just to stand a chance against them.

    I also miss the days in some other MMOs I played where all dps would pull off the best of tanks if they weren't using threat reduction/pacing their damage responsibly. DPS should be more than just watching your rotation and staying out of fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alent View Post
    I kinda miss the days when good rogues and destro/festro warlocks were riding my ass on threat and I had to go all out just to stand a chance against them.

    I also miss the days in some other MMOs I played where all dps would pull off the best of tanks if they weren't using threat reduction/pacing their damage responsibly. DPS should be more than just watching your rotation and staying out of fire.
    Yeah, i'm worried that going all out my not be enough soon. And since tank threat has been ridiculously easy for the last 3 months, i think majority of dps haven't been concerned about watching there threat. I had a mage pull threat off me in Malygos with mirror image out and in a stack of sparks, right after malygos landed, and ended up arcaning breath the raid for the wipe.

    I don't find proc tanking difficult, no matter what the wow forums warriors say, I just see scalling problems in the future.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Daavos View Post
    I don't find proc tanking difficult, no matter what the wow forums warriors say, I just see scalling problems in the future.

    I was feeling similar, however the past couple weeks i've really been paying attention to my threat on Thaddius. Since everyone's power scales virtually equally i felt this fight should be a good measure of what we can expect in future content with regards to scalability. What i found is my TPS is double the next person be it a fury warrior, fire mage, whatever. Obviously its not a perfect guage, but as long as our future gear continues to increase our threat stats equally as it does with DPSers stats, i think we just might be ok, at least i think there's hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkor View Post
    I was feeling similar, however the past couple weeks i've really been paying attention to my threat on Thaddius. Since everyone's power scales virtually equally i felt this fight should be a good measure of what we can expect in future content with regards to scalability. What i found is my TPS is double the next person be it a fury warrior, fire mage, whatever. Obviously its not a perfect guage, but as long as our future gear continues to increase our threat stats equally as it does with DPSers stats, i think we just might be ok, at least i think there's hope.
    Ghostcrawler actually said that one reason to keep threat a concern (even if not as tight as in the Burning Crusade) is so that tanks don't just ignore all threat stats at the expense of mitigation stats. So, it is to be assumed that increasing threat stats will be on gear. That is no guarantee that scaling problems won't occur, but if they do, threat will likely be adjusted.

  16. #16
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    I like the fact that DPS must watch threat and use more than their most potent spells and abilities. While it lowers dps overall, it is very important that they watch what they are doing. As I have geared up, I have noticed something that may be just peculiar to my guild, the tanks are actively trying to pull aggro off of each other. Not sure why, i am going to have to address this soon.

    Anyhoo.... I would rather see some subtle changes that still require the rest of the raid to pay attention. If warriors are the only one having to pay attention it will be quite demanding of us and the other classes may stop raiding. (think so?)

    I must agree with other tanks, i chose this spec to be the most interactive with the game as possible. Tanks have to know each encounter, what other classes must do, how they cast, what they cast, when to drop totems. etc.. I have the most fun and the fastest heartbeat when I am tanking.

  17. #17
    Changing HS what for ?
    It would be ridiculous. I love HS for beeing a skill that is so independent of all others and you can choose when to use it and how often. And even spamming it is just a thing of micro any good war should have anyway. Using this skill wisely differs good from bad wars. ( At least something does at this ridiculous raid content. )

  18. #18
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    It's great to see replies from GC on this but it's still sad only part of the WoW-players can join those discussions on the official boards.

    The whole HS and rage issue could be solved by making rage flow only depend on outgoing damage instead of incoming. Basing your rage income on the percentage of the total health that you lose when hit only results in more inverse scaling.

  19. #19
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    To an extent, yes, but there is a floor in the formula I picked. If you have 50000 health and get hit for 1 damage, you still get 15 rage
    Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disruptor View Post
    Changing HS what for ?
    It would be ridiculous. I love HS for beeing a skill that is so independent of all others and you can choose when to use it and how often. And even spamming it is just a thing of micro any good war should have anyway. Using this skill wisely differs good from bad wars.
    Triggering your HS key as fast as you can (mashing the button, binding it to mousewheel, macro; take your pick on method) takes a lot less skill than you give it credit for.

    Mindless tasks shouldn't require tedious button triggering. Sure there are the workarounds mentioned above, but they shouldn't be needed under proper design.

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