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Thread: Soooo Why Not 30 minute Shouts for us?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by veneretio View Post
    Tries really, really hard not to point out that this may be a nerf for PvP because of range issues ... too late. I like it!!
    I like it as well, but as ghostcrawler put it, how would it affect them from a developer pov?

    If everyone now has an additional 1000 hp all the bosses have to hit slightly harder, with battle shout all boss hp has to increase to make up for the increased dps.

  2. #62
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    The primary reason why shouts have such a short duration is likely thematic. Seals are magic and can last for however long Blizzard wants them to be without creating any reality check problems. Shouts, on the other hand, seem to be inspirational in nature and should, naturally, wear off after a while.

    A more reasonable approach would be to have Battle Shout and Commanding Shout last for the duration of combat or X minutes, whichever is more (for some small value of X). Optionally, make them cost no rage, so that they can be precast more easily.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKT View Post
    I like it as well, but as ghostcrawler put it, how would it affect them from a developer pov?

    If everyone now has an additional 1000 hp all the bosses have to hit slightly harder, with battle shout all boss hp has to increase to make up for the increased dps.
    They used to be able to design around all that stuff. It's their job, isn't it?

    Frankly, with all the changes they've made to this game in the last four years, the argument that "Well, we'd have to design encounters to take this one thing into account" falls flat. They're giving Replenishment to more classes. More classes now have pets than before (yeah, they're only combat pets, and not true pets, like hunters and warlocks). All druids have Innervate (before, you had to put points in a talent to get it). Sap now works on any mob (are they seriously saying they don't have a problem designing fights where any mob can be sapped, but not designing fights where you have to account for a little extra HP or AP?).

    Sorry. Just a rant.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roana View Post
    The primary reason why shouts have such a short duration is likely thematic. Seals are magic and can last for however long Blizzard wants them to be without creating any reality check problems. Shouts, on the other hand, seem to be inspirational in nature and should, naturally, wear off after a while.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    Hey! No bringing roleplaying into my powergaming!

    It's only roleplaying by a very loose definition of roleplaying.

    Seriously, verisimilitude and immersion are important to Blizzard. They're part of the reason why we don't get a "fast forward to destination" button for gryphon rides.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roana View Post
    The primary reason why shouts have such a short duration is likely thematic. Seals are magic and can last for however long Blizzard wants them to be without creating any reality check problems. Shouts, on the other hand, seem to be inspirational in nature and should, naturally, wear off after a while.
    True, but if we can only inspire people for two minutes at a time, we're not very good at what we do... Kind of like we're the Tony Robbins of WoW.

    Anyway, there must be some magical component to shouts, or else they wouldn't be able to do all the funky things they do.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mhoram View Post
    True, but if we can only inspire people for two minutes at a time, we're not very good at what we do... Kind of like we're the Tony Robbins of WoW.
    Well, it's not just inspiration, it's an inspiration that actually improves physical performance. And it's a shout, not a full-blown speech ("friends, Tauren, countrymen ...").

    Anyway, there must be some magical component to shouts, or else they wouldn't be able to do all the funky things they do.
    The buffs confer the ability to hit harder and endure more pain. Sounds pretty run of the mill to me for what is essentially an externally induced adrenaline boost. Which, incidentally, would be the rationale for my suggestion of extending the duration for the duration of combat, where the stress of a fight-or-flight situation keeps the effect going.

  8. #68
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    I'm just not sold on the idea of it being a physical thing - if it were that easy to incite people, why can only warriors do it? Seems like anybody standing next to you shouting "Fight! Fight" would be able to produce the same effect.

  9. #69
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    5 minute shouts would make me very happy. Long enough to 'shout and forget' for trash and quick boss fights, and not too quick to mess up a rotation during longer dps intensive fights.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mhoram View Post
    I'm just not sold on the idea of it being a physical thing - if it were that easy to incite people, why can only warriors do it? Seems like anybody standing next to you shouting "Fight! Fight" would be able to produce the same effect.
    It's because WoW is using a class-based system, and class-based systems lead to stupidities like this. Why can't paladins dual-wield and why can't rogues wield staves? Classes are archetypes cast in stone, that's all.

  11. #71
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    I... know that.

    I don't think I'll try any more.

  12. #72
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    THe balancing of fights arguement is flawed as Blizzard already balances the fights assuming you have access to BS an CS all the time. Blizzard builds fights assuming you have all available buffs. Hence the trend away from exclusive buffs that required raid stacking. So if the mechanic of application makes it harder to keep the buff up and it falls off you are now doing the encounter minus an intended buff..

  13. #73
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    I Disagree. The fights are balanced around the assumption that Ranged will not have Commanding Shout on them for the majority of the fight. If they were to make Commanding Shout last for the duration of the fight for all raid members Blizz would have to increase raid wide damage to compensate which would overtax the healers.

    That being said Blizz does assume that melee have BS and CS on them at all times.

  14. #74
    They assume everyone has both. Commanding Shout is provided by both Warriors and Warlocks (with imp), and Battle Shout is provided by Paladins.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghladum View Post
    MAN UP YOU SISSIES. WARRIORS HAVE IT HARD? SO BE IT. WE'LL RIDE IT OUT.

    /swagger

    You know you're on top of the game when your buff is timing down to 10, 9, 8 seconds and then when it hits 5-3 seconds you refresh Commanding. That's pure skill with a two-minute buff, and making sure I keep things up like they're supposed to be kept up is why I'm a good warrior. No need to complain, gentlemen.

    Besides - you know some freak at Blizzard who plays a rogue would make write on a Post-It™ Note the fact that we'll have access to more combat-GCDs if we're refreshing Shouts so much less often - and that will in subsequent patches normalize our abilities down to compensate for our influx of GCD abilities. Look in your heart, my comrades, you know this to be true.

    Warriors are - by golly! - working really well right now. Man up, stop whining, keep your buffs tidy and your raid behind you.
    <3

  16. #76
    If you're a warrior and not shouting while fighting you need to pick another class as far as I am concerned

    I am perfectly happy with the current system, it gives us something to do, is not really burdensome, and forces you to pay attention. It really is not an inconvenience, like pressing heroic strike 17,000 times a night.

    I also like that we have something completely unique in a world where all tank classes are blending into a fuzzy bear wielding a shield and farting holy dust. If I wanted to be a Paladin, I would have rolled one, and the same goes for a Druid or a Death Knight.
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  17. #77
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    I like Lonan's idea. just make it dissipate after combat after a few seconds. in combat, it's not a problem, outside of combat, hey, i'm not raging right now, down goes my war cries.

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  18. #78
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    Megaphones, I tell you. MEGAPHONES.
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  19. #79
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    Personally, I don't see a problem with the way battle/commanding shout is atm except for those warriors who fail to keep the buff up. but if a change is required I would like to see it behave similar to how the horn of winter change was applied. Make battle/commanding shout have a cooldown of 20 seconds lasts for 2 minutes unbuffed/unglyphed, but instead of using rage, it instead gives the warrior 10 rage.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    I like Lonan's idea. just make it dissipate after combat after a few seconds. in combat, it's not a problem, outside of combat, hey, i'm not raging right now, down goes my war cries.
    Problem there comes in when soloing or doing trash clears... I don't know about you but I'd probably stop leveling my warrior if I had to reapply Battle Shout after every mob.

    Could possibly make it refresh once combat starts. I could see a whole lot of "oh god my commanding shout is about to wear off I need to pull something oh whoops that's 3 packs" happening in PUGs though.
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