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Thread: Soooo Why Not 30 minute Shouts for us?

  1. #1
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    Soooo Why Not 30 minute Shouts for us?

    I'm not trying to QQ here, but if Seals got bumped up from 2minutes to 30 minutes, why can't it be the same for our Shouts?

    I mean Seals originally lasted 30 seconds and were consumed upon Judgement, which was a pain in the ass for Retadins and Prot Paladins. So they make them last 2 minutes and no longer consumed on Judgements.

    Now just because it's hard to keep up with their rotation while keeping up their seals they get them buffed to 30 minutes!?

    Shouts never really bothered me until WoTLK. I'd jsut rebuff it instead of using a Devastate. These days I find myself completly forgetting about it unless it's in between pulls, meaning it dimishes away during a boss fight. With so many buttons to press all the time I really just dont feel like using a GCD for it, since these days where bosses dont Crush, I seem to worry more about DPS/TPS instead of staying alive.

    Its just a thought.

  2. #2
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    This is a good point, and something i've thought about as well. Why do they get a buff to 30 minutes when we still have to spec into getting ours to last an extra 25%, and glyph to get an extra minute.... are shouts really that op?

    The answer is clearly no, unless you're fully speced into shouts, Battle isn't getting used at all, so only commanding is left for us. Personally, I keep a dps warrior talented into shouts keep up his battle shout all the time while i claim responsibility for the commanding.... some kind of synergy with a dps giving the dps boost and the tank giving the health boost.

  3. #3
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    Seals seem like a different animal than Shouts, for Shouts to become 30 minute buffs, it's likely we'll have to use a reagent. (which I'm sure many of us would be okay with)

  4. #4
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    I think the big plus to the paladin camp was that they no longer had to consume mana to refresh seals every 2 minutes during fights, which is a fine and valid excuse. However, warriors are still spending rage on shouts, so why do they get the benefit? Also, remember shouts are not the only short-term buff out there, there is still horn of winter. Totems are close but last 5 minutes which these days is longer than a lot of boss fights.

    I don't mind having to refresh shouts/HoW if that's the way bliz wants to do it. However, if we want everything to be on the same playing field, lets make shouts cost no rage - then it's just a GCD for everyone. Of course I'd love to see the GCD go away for all of these abilities, but that's probably hoping a little too much.

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  5. #5
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    I will preface this with a "I want warrior shout durations to be buffed" so don't misunderstand this post.

    With that said, shouts can't be compared to seals. Seals are not group buffs. Seals and the shaman weapon buffs are a better comparison.

    However, I do think the duration of shouts should be increased. Anywhere from 10-15 minutes would be fine. Paladin blessings last 10 unless you do the greater version, but that requires both mana and a reagent, as opposed to just mana. Or if they boost shouts to 30 mins, you might have to do the reagent thing too (assuming they go similar with this...they could do something totally different however)

  6. #6
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    Shouts def. need to come off the GCD or all share their own (a la Hunter Aspects). I mean I'm pretty sure I can shout and swing a big stick at someone at the same time.

  7. #7
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    I think 30 min shouts with a reagent would be a great idea.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimoos View Post
    I don't mind having to refresh shouts/HoW if that's the way bliz wants to do it. However, if we want everything to be on the same playing field, lets make shouts cost no rage - then it's just a GCD for everyone. Of course I'd love to see the GCD go away for all of these abilities, but that's probably hoping a little too much.
    I can see Blizzard tweaking shouts like HoW. Would a shout that generated 5 rage instantly, but had a 30 sec CD be useful for a warrior? Note that the duration doesn't change, which still makes it something to actively track. (For DKs, using HoW has become an option to generate Runic Power when everything else is cooling down.)

  9. #9
    having to use a reagent as a warrior would be... wierd.

    but if that's what it took to get 30 min shouts, so be it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by veneretio View Post
    Seals seem like a different animal than Shouts, for Shouts to become 30 minute buffs, it's likely we'll have to use a reagent. (which I'm sure many of us would be okay with)
    We could see throat-drop reagents in the future... I'm calling it now.

  11. #11
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    I was thinking this EXACT same thing last night. It only makes sense to either a) remove the rage needed to shout or b) make it last longer. We're warriors, why in the hell do we need to be enraged to shout?

  12. #12
    The biggest problem with shouts is trying to buff *everyone* with it. Many of the fights in Naxx and beyond - namely Sapphiron & KT - it is extremely hard (if not impossible) to rebuff everyone with our shouts 2 minutes into a fight - and every 2 minutes afterwards. This is especially hard if you are tanking.

    If its assumed in 25 man raids that you have commanding shout or an imp (which is another problem - small range aura) its really just kind of ridiculous for them to be such short duration.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jere View Post
    I will preface this with a "I want warrior shout durations to be buffed" so don't misunderstand this post.

    With that said, shouts can't be compared to seals. Seals are not group buffs. Seals and the shaman weapon buffs are a better comparison.
    This. I've been largely trying to avoid the discussion but Jere says this well. You simply can't compare seals and shouts. Warriors don't lose nearly as much by not having a shout active that a Paladin loses by not having a seal active.

    Imagine that you had to refresh Defensive Stance every two minutes. That's a little more accurate in terms of overall effect to the class.

    I'm not really arguing either way on whether shout duration should be changed, I'm just saying that "Seals got buffed" is not a good argument to make for it.
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  14. #14
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    They should just make it so shouts are persistent in combat and tick off some period of time after combat. In the heat of battle do you really think that a rallying call needs to be made every 2 minutes? I don't think so, but after combat is over and your fellows are resting their zeal from your rallying cry might die off untill blood is once again being spilled and you call them to your side again. Sorry for the lame imagery but thats really what a shout is. Are you gonna sit in combat and constantly shout "Hit harder, Hit Harder" or "Have more health, Have more health"?

    SO in the end make the shout a combat duration buff that dissipates after combat on a set timer, say 30 second. that way if you are chain pulling you can keep it active but when entering real encounters you have to be aware and get it up early to rally the group and then go about your job knowing that they have your back.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonan View Post
    "Have more health, Have more health"?
    I lol'ed

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  16. #16
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    No reagent. If 30 minutes means using a reagent, keep shouts on the short duration.
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  17. #17
    Yeah needing a reagent to shout seems fairly ridiculous.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    This. I've been largely trying to avoid the discussion but Jere says this well. You simply can't compare seals and shouts. Warriors don't lose nearly as much by not having a shout active that a Paladin loses by not having a seal active.

    Imagine that you had to refresh Defensive Stance every two minutes. That's a little more accurate in terms of overall effect to the class.

    I'm not really arguing either way on whether shout duration should be changed, I'm just saying that "Seals got buffed" is not a good argument to make for it.

    No, our defensive stance is equivalent to your righteous fury... which is a 30 minute buff compared to our permanent defensive stance..

    However your shouts(auras) are a permanent buff compared to our 2minute ones.. PLUS you get blessings that are also 30minute buffs now...so...
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    No reagent. If 30 minutes means using a reagent, keep shouts on the short duration.
    I agree that a reagent seems a little awkward for shouts, but the tradeoff just seems like a no brainer

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    Yeah needing a reagent to shout seems fairly ridiculous.
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