DK Tank - Def Cap, Need Help

[Addohm]

I think my gear is pretty good. I've got decent avoidance, armor, and HP. But I have a problem, I am not def capped. I am, with my sigil, but even if I was to fit +16 Def gems in to every socket I have, I still wouldn't be def capped. My goal, obviously, is to be able to be capped without Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle, the sigil I don't mind because it is 100% up. Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle is 25 Defense, translating to roughly 123 Defense Rating. My gear is all heroics, Naxx-10, and some naxx-25. I've MT'd everything, except Malygos. I tell you, when I saw a DK with similar tanking stats, with all blue gear, I got discouraged. He is easily def capped without RotSG or the sigil. How can I hit the def cap, without going backwards in gear, and without raping my avoidance\stamina? I would like to use swordshattering, but obviously I am bound to RotSG.


This is me...
The World of Warcraft Armory

This is the MT of another guild...
The World of Warcraft Armory

Thanks,

Adam

[Coughar]

hey,
as alraedy stated few times here before anything else you need to be def capped. so get rid of your dodge trinkets and grab def rating trinkets - like the seal of the pantheon. (you could also use DEF rating elixiers - from what i remember its +45 defense rating). and ofc before dodge/stam replace your gems with def/stam if you still not @ cap. you are at 531 atm - so its not that far anyway isnt it?. if you want to go further ... maybe dropp enchanting for JC. Bonus JC gems are pretty cool, and ench gives you on both rings +24 stam ... no big deal.


hope it helps
Coughar

[Invidius]

Just look at his trinket - that's 65 Defense Rating alone, Chest enchant and you can add another 22. He also gems a bit more for Defense than what you do. Your avoidance is at around the same level, and your healthpool is also about the same, so I don't really see a problem

I find myself changing from stamina gems to defense gems a lot more now that I am beginning to combine Naxx 25 tank-loot with my heroic and naxx 10 gear. Since I get better and better avoidance and a bigger healthpool I don't see a problem with having to do so for the time being!

[Addohm]

hey,
as alraedy stated few times here before anything else you need to be def capped. so get rid of your dodge trinkets and grab def rating trinkets - like the seal of the pantheon. (you could also use DEF rating elixiers - from what i remember its +45 defense rating). and ofc before dodge/stam replace your gems with def/stam if you still not @ cap. you are at 531 atm - so its not that far anyway isnt it?. if you want to go further ... maybe dropp enchanting for JC. Bonus JC gems are pretty cool, and ench gives you on both rings +24 stam ... no big deal.


hope it helps
Coughar

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. My goal here, is to achieve 530 Def (Don't need 540 with Sigil), without RotSG. If I can do that, I can add 4% parry to my avoidance. I would hope that I can do that, and lose very little of my current avoidance.

RotSG gives me 25 Defense, that is 123 Defense Rating. I want to trade that for 4% Parry, but at what cost? 123 Defense Rating, if I gem purely for defense, would be 8 (rounded up) +16 def gems. I don't even have that many sockets. Even if I did, I would lose a fair amount of dodge rating. If I swap out my trinkets, I would lose dodge rating. Arguably, I could trade out Defenders Code for Seal of the Pantheon, but it still would only be a trade for 13 defense. I still need to make up 58 More defense rating. That would be 4 (rounded up) +16 def gems. At the cost of losing 32 Dodge Rating, and 48 Stamina (and some socket bonus', not sure which because I'm at work).

[Addohm]

Looking further in to it, IF I was to do as as I suggested above, using Chardev, I get

chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x
27248 HP in Frost Presence
25834 Armor
531 DR (540 With Sigil Procs)
22.89% Dodge
19.69% Parry
9.00% Miss

So assuming BB is always up, that is 61.58% avoidance with 70.98% damage reduction.

As compared to

chardev.org - a World of Warcraft Character Planner - x
28128 HP in Frost Presence
26704 Armor
531 DR (540 With Sigil Procs)
23.31% Dodge
15.72% Parry

So assuming BB is always up, that is 58.03% avoidance with 71.66% damage reduction with 700 more HP.

I guess, after playing with chardev, the choice is pretty obvious. What is the value of damage reduction and HP over avoidance anyways? I think the builds actually seem fairly equal, with the top build slightly edging the bottom. One also has to question the accuracy of Chardev as well, since in game with frost presence I know I am 28.3k HP.

[AxLxExX]

...I don't think you should base your tanking off of "if a sigil procs."

When I tank anything that requires an OT, or when I spec DPS, tanks are not allowed in my group/raid unless they're def. capped. Period.

[TheYanger]

It's not an 'if', the sigil is always up unless you're borderline incompetent (30 second buff from an ability you use every 10-16 seconds. It's fine). There's nothing wrong with utilizing it to reach cap.

[Addohm]

People like him are just incompetent to DK's. I ignored his post, you should to The sigil was meant to take place of the fact that DW DK tanks are terrible, 2-hand DK tanks lack defense up to a certain gear level, and finally to avoid having to add 2-handed weapons to the game (that would clearly be meant for DK's) that other classes like warriors, druids, or paladins would roll on so they could 2-hand tank also. Must be nice to have a shield, with bonus and\or sockets, that enables you to easily attain the def cap.

As the above poster said, the uptime of the sigil proc is 100% unless your an absolute idiot.

[Birdeye]

The Sigil is 100% uptime but you should not rely on a sigil to reach the cap its easily reachable without the sigil. I myself reached the cap easily without any sigil or defense trinket. While I do use the sigil for the extra avoidance I don't rely on it.

[Genkk]

If def cap is the goal, get more + def gems. Swap out stats for def enchant on chest item.

[Igshealiden]

remember this rule with gems, the correct gem in the correct socket gives you socket bonus,

YOU DONT NEED TO HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT COLOR
if you are really that worried just convert some your stuff into pure defensive gems

also get the seal of pantheon unless you can rely on yourself without the extra 60 defense rating then you shouldnt be useing those dodge trinkets at all,

[Addohm]

remember this rule with gems, the correct gem in the correct socket gives you socket bonus,

YOU DONT NEED TO HAVE TO HAVE THE RIGHT COLOR
if you are really that worried just convert some your stuff into pure defensive gems

also get the seal of pantheon unless you can rely on yourself without the extra 60 defense rating then you shouldnt be useing those dodge trinkets at all,

I've already put up the numbers required to hit the def cap by gemming for pure def rating, and it is not possible with the amount of sockets I currently hold. I am better off getting the trinket, and using jagged forest emeralds to hit cap, or I will take a huge hit to stamina.

If def cap is the goal, get more + def gems. Swap out stats for def enchant on chest item.

Did you read all the posts?

[Addohm]

The Sigil is 100% uptime but you should not rely on a sigil to reach the cap its easily reachable without the sigil.

Why not?

I myself reached the cap easily without any sigil or defense trinket. While I do use the sigil for the extra avoidance I don't rely on it.

So did I, but as I upgrade my gear, it seems to get more difficult to hit the cap. Wyrmcrest gear + crafted gear have substantial amounts of defense rating on them as compared to naxx-10 and some naxx-25 upgrades. Once I get the cloak from the valor vendor though, I think I will be all set.