Very Confused Prot Warrior Needs Help!

[FoldingZebra]

First thanks for taking the time to read my post!

Last night my guild and I were discussing badge gear. They told me to get the dodge trinket. I was under the impression that dodge was not a must get stat. That also brought up other questions. So now I'm pretty confused and would like to turn to the tanking community to get me on the right path. I will make a list of questions below. Link to my armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

1) After 540 Defense Rating, what stat should be worked on and to what goal?

2) I don't fully understand Expertise. I think I have to have 14% total to cap so I don't get dodged or parried. Wrong?

3) My gems. Should they be done another way?

4) Hit Rating. How important is it? What is the cap?

Thanks all!

[Tatt]

Expertise reduces your chance for something to dodge or parry you. 26-27 expertise means unless you are hit with some weird debuff like attuneman used to that mobs or bosses cannot dodge your attacks. 57 (I think) eliminates their ability to parry your attacks.

The hit rating cap for 1 hand attacks is 267, but from what I have read some attacks like shockwave require slightly more to achieve the same goal, which is mobs and bosses not ever being missed by your attacks.

After 540 defense your goal needs to be determined by the people you play with honestly. If your healers are having trouble keeping you alive, stam and avoidance is the goal. If your dps is pulling stuff off you, hit and expertise needs to be the goal.

P.S. If you have a draenai in your party you can carry less hit rating, not sure exactly how much (hordie here) but it is 1% I believe.

[FoldingZebra]

OK. Thank you. How much life should I maintain while buffing these stats so I can still Off Tank Naxx10?

[Tatt]

Opinions vary...I OT'd Naxx10 as low as 24k hp if I recall, unbuffed...as long as you can get up to about 28-29 with raid buffs, food, and flasks you should be fine. Again, depends on the group around you, amazing healers will allow you more flexibilty.

[FoldingZebra]

thanks a lot.

[Rampagingorc]

1) After 540 Defense Rating, what stat should be worked on and to what goal?

Stamina and Expertise are the way to go. You are no where near the dodge cap for expertise so taking this stat over Hit will give you double the effect.

Try setting your sights on 28k, its very achieveable for you right now, and will help you survive fights like Patchwerk.

3) My gems. Should they be done another way?

Your Gems selection isnt bad, personaly i would have put a Expertise/Stm in my legs instead of the straight Expertise though.
I looked at your reputation tab and noticed that you havent been working on sons of hodir rep yet, you need to get started on that. The money from the grind is good, and when you hit exalted you the enchant will give you 20 dodge and 15 Def. Which will alow you to swap out some of the Def gems your currently using. A 40stm to bracers would go along way also. And Finnaly grabbing a belt buckle would also serve you well.

4) Hit Rating. How important is it? What is the cap?

Hit is very nice for increasing your threat output, but remember, Expertise gives you double the bang for your buck untill you cap dodges, then they break even.

[Skyborn]

Just to clarify -- I wouldn't try to bring your expertise above 26. After you hit 26 you can work on hit if you need even more threat/dps, or work on your avoidance and health.

[FoldingZebra]

Ill look into Sons of Hodir. I was trying to get revered With Argent Crusade for the head enchant. I was thinking of Wrymrest for some of their gear. Thanks.

[Kexil]

Sons of Holdir do not have a talbard, so it will take you longer to do and you can work on SOH by the dailies and turn-in's and Wyrmrest or Argent Crusade at the same time.

[IceHaus151]

You can buy rep with SoH now, by purchasing the Relic of Ulduars off the AH. Didnt used to be that way. I had nearly 200 saved up (after spending them on crap before since there wasnt anything else to use them for) so once the new patch came out that allowed us to turn them in, I got a ton of rep and it propelled me nicely through revered. SoH also have nice DPS enchants if you ever go offspec. It is really a needed faction to be exalted with.

[FoldingZebra]

Sons of Holdir do not have a talbard, so it will take you longer to do and you can work on SOH by the dailies and turn-in's and Wyrmrest or Argent Crusade at the same time.

How can you do these both at the same time?

[Tatt]

Their is no tabard for hodir, so you do hodir dailies but leave argent or wyrmrest tabard on for heroics.

[FoldingZebra]

Their is no tabard for hodir, so you do hodir dailies but leave argent or wyrmrest tabard on for heroics.

DUH! Thanks.

[FoldingZebra]

You can buy rep with SoH now, by purchasing the Relic of Ulduars off the AH. Didnt used to be that way. I had nearly 200 saved up (after spending them on crap before since there wasnt anything else to use them for) so once the new patch came out that allowed us to turn them in, I got a ton of rep and it propelled me nicely through revered. SoH also have nice DPS enchants if you ever go offspec. It is really a needed faction to be exalted with.

awesome. This is a good tip.

[Gadholm]

Opinions vary...I OT'd Naxx10 as low as 24k hp if I recall, unbuffed...as long as you can get up to about 28-29 with raid buffs, food, and flasks you should be fine. Again, depends on the group around you, amazing healers will allow you more flexibilty.

You don't need more than 22k unbuffed to OT Naxx 10. Obviously you don't want to be there in greens, but if you're def-capped and have decent healers you're fine. My first Naxx 10 I took a 20k DK in lvl 78 blues, and never had an OT death. OTing Naxx is cake, its just finding a group with low hp that will be difficult.

[jlafleur]

Expertise reduces your chance for something to dodge or parry you. 26-27 expertise means unless you are hit with some weird debuff like attuneman used to that mobs or bosses cannot dodge your attacks. 57 (I think) eliminates their ability to parry your attacks.

The hit rating cap for 1 hand attacks is 267, but from what I have read some attacks like shockwave require slightly more to achieve the same goal, which is mobs and bosses not ever being missed by your attacks.

The 1h hit cap for special attacks against level 83 (boss) is 263.

Attumen's Intangible Presence reduced hit by 50%. It had no bearing on expertise which reduced your chance to be dodged or parried.

Just to clarify -- I wouldn't try to bring your expertise above 26. After you hit 26 you can work on hit if you need even more threat/dps, or work on your avoidance and health.

Expertise is generally considered to be superior to hit even after the soft-cap of 26 due to the fact that it still mitigates damage because you aren't taking extra potential hits from a boss (because it parried your attack resulting in a faster attack speed by the boss).

Expertise is always better than Hit - Warriors - TankingTips.com

[Darvenof]

Hi Folding -

I'd recommend not picking up the dodge trinket until later.

The way I think about badge pick order is -- what gives me the biggest bang for my buck...relative to what I can get or have access to now.

Vene over at tankingtips.com has a good article on the badge pick order that I think is pretty spot on. The only item that I don't necessarily agree with is picking up the Waistguard of Living Iron if you already have the Ancient Aligned Girdle...but it's an all-together good article.

If I were you, I'd save my badges for the T7 chest, or at the very least the T7 gloves. They'll give you a lot more utility on every fight than a dodge trinket that maybe you'll use on a boss fight -- but then again maybe you'll stick with your stam trinkets...and likely you'll not use at all on trash. I picked up the trinket after getting the neck only because the gloves and chest had already dropped for me, and the belt was somewhat of a sidegrade. I can't say I've used it more than a few times on bosses.

With respect to your ability to OT in Nax10, it was suggested to me that I would be ready to OT Nax10 with 22k hps, 540 def and ~40% total avoidance (dodge + parry + miss). Looks like you're ready to go on all of those things.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[FoldingZebra]

Hi Folding -

I'd recommend not picking up the dodge trinket until later.

The way I think about badge pick order is -- what gives me the biggest bang for my buck...relative to what I can get or have access to now.

Vene over at tankingtips.com has a good article on the badge pick order that I think is pretty spot on. The only item that I don't necessarily agree with is picking up the Waistguard of Living Iron if you already have the Ancient Aligned Girdle...but it's an all-together good article.

If I were you, I'd save my badges for the T7 chest, or at the very least the T7 gloves. They'll give you a lot more utility on every fight than a dodge trinket that maybe you'll use on a boss fight -- but then again maybe you'll stick with your stam trinkets...and likely you'll not use at all on trash. I picked up the trinket after getting the neck only because the gloves and chest had already dropped for me, and the belt was somewhat of a sidegrade. I can't say I've used it more than a few times on bosses.

With respect to your ability to OT in Nax10, it was suggested to me that I would be ready to OT Nax10 with 22k hps, 540 def and ~40% total avoidance (dodge + parry + miss). Looks like you're ready to go on all of those things.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Thanks for the reply. This was helpful. My guild want's me to have 27K to off tank and it has been getting hard to get in the raids. I have off tanked Naxx10 once, and it went fine. I did not die once. I dunno, I may have to move on soon maybe. Anyways, I think I will save for the chest then the gloves since I probably wont get them from a raid. Thanks again!

[jettzypher]

Anyways, I think I will save for the chest then the gloves since I probably wont get them from a raid

try to get into vault runs too. quick and easy gear if youre lucky, and a couple badges to go along with it. then just find a good group that you can easily cruise through heroics with to get those badges for the gear you need. i found a group of two unholy DKs, a protadin, and a healadin worked great. the two DKs did more than enough dps to make up for what i didnt really do as a tank, and once i had better gear i tanked bosses while the protadin took out trash. each run was about 20-30 min on average once everyone new what to do and didnt have to talk strategy.

[Skyborn]

Expertise is generally considered to be superior to hit even after the soft-cap of 26 due to the fact that it still mitigates damage because you aren't taking extra potential hits from a boss (because it parried your attack resulting in a faster attack speed by the boss).

Expertise is always better than Hit - Warriors - TankingTips.com

So which would you rather have, 263 hit and 26 expertise or 0 hit and 58 expertise?

I would definitely say that expertise is the priority until dodges are taken off the table, then after that it's up to your discretion. I personally don't want to put more than 26 points into expertise because I'd like to free up gem slots / gear for more health, more avoidance, or more hit as needed. Like everything, expertise seems to be another factor you need to balance.

In other words, I don't know for sure, but it just feels right to soft cap expertise and then work on hit. Maybe I'm wrong on this?