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Thread: Tanking Topics #1: Heroic Strike

  1. #121
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    Total noob question here for someone new to keybindings.(Outside of generic ones) How do you setup your Heroic Strike to Mousewheel?
    Thank You

  2. #122
    with bartender:

    -put hs on a bar
    -type "/kb"
    -mouse over wherever hs is and wheel up.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norik View Post
    Total noob question here for someone new to keybindings.(Outside of generic ones) How do you setup your Heroic Strike to Mousewheel?
    Thank You
    In the Keybindings interface, you can simply bind any action slot to the mousewheel (either up or down).
    風林火山陰雷

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  4. #124
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    I personally hate the toggle idea, to me that is why we have micros.

    Could you make HS an instant cast with minimal CD or no GCD.

    This way you still have a way of purging rage(quick) but it would still feel to me like a button that would need/want to be in my rotation because of pure burst DPS/threat.

    Of course you would have to scale HS rage cost with however fast your weapon is

    Or you could scale the CD with how fast your weapon is...yeah that would be cool and it wouldn't be much different from next swing.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehgreen View Post
    if only because no other class has to hit 2 abilities every gcd.
    -sucks for us warriors to be competitive on threat hs is necessary
    Incorrect. Try bear tanking w/o spamming Maul. Trying to martyr yourself seriously undermines the argument.

    Not sure I'd want Blizzard to prioritize this over other things like the sorry state of Prot dps (which should solve the tps problem), the really sorry state Prot dps when not MT'ing, and getting the new Savage Defense right the first time.

    However, I like the idea of adding a new on-next-swing ability so there is at least a decision/choice to be made between spamming HS/Maul and something else. That combined with some of the keybinding/macroing/mousewheel/mousebutton ideas should resolve any concern about RSI's. I simply don't like the idea of tanking getting any easier, and agree wholeheartedly with the earlier posters that said greater skill and situational awareness should be rewarded with noticably better performance.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Powhound View Post
    Like mentioned by others already I've been rolliing Heroic Strike around in my head for the past week and how much I hate spamming it.

    I support the addition of a new Prot talent similar to Fury's Death Wish. Something that might increase the rage cost of all abilities by X% yet offer a damage/haste/AP/whatever boost to all ablities.

    This would also help Prot in PvP giving us more burst potential in high rage situations.
    Can this get added to the OP. I like the idea and would hate to have someone at bliz do a less than thorough reading and miss this option.

  7. #127
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    To Xav and others who are against all macro usage:

    I don't know why everyone is against binding the shift key queue up heroic strike with special moves. I have shift bound to all of my special moves. In infinite rage situations I just hold down shift. As long as I am hitting a move every cool down, HS is always on. In low rage situations, I can hold shift only when rage needs to be burned. In situations where I only want to use HS, I have a separate button for it. Why is this not the best solution until there is a toggleable option? You get all the control with much fewer keystrokes.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    And I am sure some people will read it and go "hey, good idea" =) No worries there! We are also trying to get at the root cause of the problem, so trying to pass off macroing, or mousewheel, or whatever as the solution isn't what the discussion is aimed at, that's all.

    (And as noted by several in thread, HS itself isn't even the real root cause, but that's for another discussion.)
    We're getting into the realm of semantics now, but I think 'on next swing' mechanics are the actual problem. It just wasn't apparent until limitless rage situations became more prevalent. Heroic Strike/Cleave inherently require you to press keys faster than the GCD - whether it's through keystrokes, macros, or creative use of a scroll wheel.

    I'd like to see HS and Cleave put onto the GCD with no cooldown, but make the rage cost prohibitive enough that you cannot spam them. I think that change would keep the ideal of a rage dump, but with far fewer key presses.

  9. #129
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    After meditating on this I'm going to revise my opinion to "please Blizz DO NOT change Heroic Strike".

    I use it to mark time. Heroic strike is my metronome.

  10. #130
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    Kind of a "Which came first..." argument.

    Do we need to Heroic Strike because we have the rage or do we have the rage because we need to Heroic Strike?

    The truth is that there's a vacuum that exists in the "infinite rage" rotation.

    HS works well in low rage rotations where you're checking to make sure you have enough rage to squeeze it in. There's a choice - should I drop an HS or keep my rage high for something bigger?

    In infinite rage scenarios there's no conflict though. You're not checking to see if you have the rage 'cause you know it's there - there's no decision that needs to be made. Spam HS!

    Essentially there needs to be something that replaces HS in high rage situations. Something that creates the same conflict - should I drop ??? or keep my rage high for something bigger?

    This is a two part problem. What should the benefit of this new (or tweaked) ability be and what's the high rage trade off?

    I'd suggest the following:

    1) Leave HS alone as a low / moderate rage rotation filler.
    2) Distracting Shout "33 rage, The warrior's next 5 basic attacks cause high threat, deal weapon damage and reduce party member's threat by x% on his target. 20 second CD." (should prevent HS.)
    3) Move Execute to all stances.

    This causes a situation where HS is still viable in infinite and limited rage situations but two high rage alternatives can be applied as well. Mocking Blow for managing threat at the beginning and towards the middle of the fight and Execute for when the fight is winding down.

  11. #131
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    can't find the edit button :-(

    Last line should read:

    Distracting Shout for managing threat at the beginning and towards the middle of the fight and Execute for when the fight is winding down.

  12. #132
    You know... If HS wasn't as much of a threat tool, this might not be a problem. If they moved the threat from HS to something like Dev (with appropriate rage cost balances) then it's no longer a dire situation. You can "fix" HS by either increasing rage/dmg, adding a third on-swing execute like ability or whatever without hurting our core TPS mechanic - which is where the danger lies in.

  13. #133
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    I like the idea being tossed around...

    I like the idea of consuming additional rage which gives a damage boost, and it made me think of a peculiar alternative. What if they changed the shield slam (or one of the major tank skills) to a different rage mechanic, more along the lines of execute? So you have to have at least 15 rage to use shield slam, but available rage past 15 will increase damage dealt by X. Perhaps it could leave some rage behind, or perhaps not. Jumping ahead of the scope of the thread, I know, but it would likely solve the issue.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakabon View Post
    To Xav and others who are against all macro usage:

    I don't know why everyone is against binding the shift key queue up heroic strike with special moves. I have shift bound to all of my special moves. In infinite rage situations I just hold down shift. As long as I am hitting a move every cool down, HS is always on. In low rage situations, I can hold shift only when rage needs to be burned. In situations where I only want to use HS, I have a separate button for it. Why is this not the best solution until there is a toggleable option? You get all the control with much fewer keystrokes.
    I'm only against macroing it in to the base abilities you press. If you use a modifier to get that functionality, great. I personally can't hold down a modifier key for too long or my pinky gets annoyed (I guess it depends on your hands)
    Xav
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    control+c control+v amirite?
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    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  15. #135
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    Jan 2009
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    Yes, please

    I absolutely agree this needs to change.

    As a temporary solution, I have been using my own "toggle". As others have suggested, I have macros such as "/cast Shield Slam; /cast !Heroic Strike", and they are bound to my normal tanking keys, starting at 1. I also have shift-1 bound to the default ability, without the HS. This way I can toggle; If I have limited rage, I hold down shift and tank as normal.. in infinite rage I let go of the shift key.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElfTheHunter View Post
    You know... If HS wasn't as much of a threat tool, this might not be a problem. If they moved the threat from HS to something like Dev (with appropriate rage cost balances) then it's no longer a dire situation. You can "fix" HS by either increasing rage/dmg, adding a third on-swing execute like ability or whatever without hurting our core TPS mechanic - which is where the danger lies in.
    Adding a third "on-next-swing" ability doesn't really alleviate the issue of having to have to press two keys for every GCD.

    The main hurdle is finding something for infinite rage scenarios that acts as a rage dump and competes with HS in utility (for both DPS and TPS.)

  17. #137
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    Do we need to Heroic Strike because we have the rage or do we have the rage because we need to Heroic Strike?
    I think this is the million dollar question, right here.

    We Heroic Strike away every single white attack because, right now, we can. And we are given the opportunity to do this because if we don't, our threat and DPS will me markedly behind other tanks.

    The problem transcends a Heroic Strike functionality change, in my opinion, and a better change is to the situation we are placed in.

    1. We need more threat that is not Heroic Strike. This threat must be damage based and realistically should fall into shield slam and devastate to help with our other problem, non-tanking DPS. Since Shield Slam is already substantial, Devastate seems the logical target for increase. Perhaps we need another Prot only, large cost attack to use in a rage dump capacity.

    2. We need less rage. I know, this one doesn't sound like fun--it doesn't sound like fun to me either. But since the topic is Heroic Strike use, it is the root cause nonetheless. We get rage from multiple party/raid buffs, and we get far too much rage from BoSanc--even without it we have minimal heroic strike downtime, though. So long as we have this rage, we will use it. We'd be bad if we didn't. No good tank sits with the bar pegged for entire fights and just says "meh, I'm holding aggro, who cares".

    Number two does not work without number one. We still need to be competitive with everyone else, and as such we need all that rage. Changing one without the other doesn't change any situation relating to Heroic Strike.

    I'm not fond of a toggle. Heroic Strike is what a warrior uses to moderate their rage bar, and it is the button you push when you are aware that it is too high. Even in "unlimited rage" situations, you are aware that you can afford it before you push the button, and you do it because you process that decision in the span of your weapon speed. For me, cutting my keypresses in half or more is nothing more than getting boring.

    I'm even less in favor of a cooldown. With a cooldown, we no longer have a rage dump. We will sit at 100 rage, or it will increase in cost to prevent that from happening--which will make it even more out of reach for non-tanking situations. It also does nothing more than switch us from awareness of our rage total to awareness of yet another cooldown coming up. Not at all a desireable end result, in my opinion.

    Heroic Strike is fine as is, in my opinion. What is not fine is our direct reliance on it for functionality and the way it interacts with fast weapons--it is this ability alone that dictates warrior tanking be done most effectively with a fast one, this ability that says "you'll be a better tank if you can hit HS every 1.6 seconds instead of every 2.5".

    Rather than rework HOW we use Heroic Strike, I think a far better direction is to rework WHY we use it the way we do.

  18. #138
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    Perhaps change Heroic Strike to use a percentage of available rage and scale the damage accordingly. However, given the massive amount of rage in fights like Patchwerk it may still require some spamming in infinite rage situations.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    I'm only against macroing it in to the base abilities you press. If you use a modifier to get that functionality, great. I personally can't hold down a modifier key for too long or my pinky gets annoyed (I guess it depends on your hands)
    Yeah, I have no problems with the pinky =) Although sometimes it is awkward while moving. Hmmm, maybe one way to get around it would be to bind the shift key to a side button on a gaming mouse, where you could use the thumb in its natural position.

  20. #140
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerlth View Post
    Or would a macro that would only queue up Heroic Strike if you pressed the button twice.

    like:
    /Cast []
    /Cast Heroic Strike if macro is pressed twice.

    I agree with NO macroing of Heroic strike but...... Going along with Nerlth idea, anyone see anything wrong with the following?

    /castsequence reset=1 Devastate, Heroic Strike
    OR
    /castsequence reset=1 Shield Slam, Heroic Strike


    Since GCD > 1 sec, you will be able to spam the button 2 times in a GCD and it will do the task (dev/SS) and queue up HEROIC STRIKE. with out missing anything.

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