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Thread: Death Knight Frustrations

  1. #41
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    Oct 2008
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    This is the part where I stop responding because I realize you fail to grasp the principle of what I'm saying.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entry View Post
    Gothik is one of them, yes, but it's largely frustrating on trash. It's not DPS AoEing that presents the issue, but healers healing and generating more than the zero threat I'm generating while I pray for enough Runes to reactivate to be able to prevent deaths. Warriors can Thunderclap every 6 seconds, in addition to being able to toss a shockwave to snap additional mobs to them. Death and Decay has a 30 second cooldown, Howling Blast only does decent damage against targets infected with Frost Fever, and we're limited by Runes, not particularly globals in this type of situation. Your other points about DPS AoEing are irrelevant and not what I was talking about at all. Next, I don't care that BoSanc is being changed, I know that it is, but it's a serious concern right now. It will continue to be until they fix it, and I'm trying to expedite the process. Do you have any idea what I mean when I say top-end DPS/guilds? Why should DPS have to hold back for a few seconds for one class but not another (assuming equal gear)? This goes against Blizzard's declared intentions. My conclusions that I've reached are not based solely on Patchwerk, it's a benchmark I use to weed out the bads that try to post irrelevant and unhelpful information (I'm referring to you a tiny bit here, Nips).


    Edit: I also foresee the same thing happening with Blood Boil (upcoming change) that I cite above as happening with Howling Blast.
    Guess i read wrong, you are having problems with trashmobs killing your healers. I apologise for derailing your thread.

  3. #43
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    Dec 2008
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    Regarding staggered spawn, I have more problem picking up Sartharion's adds and Tenebron's whelps than any trash mob pulls. At least I can pull back the trash mob. The whelps spawn right next to healers and ERW can only help me so much.

  4. #44
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entry View Post
    The rest of your points are directed at a content level lower than what I inteded to be discussing, and I apologize for being so rude, but I definitely value your input and criticism.
    Now im getting very curious as to what content your talking about then...

    Let me say we are at a point where we are trying for all the Achievements in naxx 25 as well as other heroic raids... we haven't been as succesfull. But this is mostly due to the fact that we have few hardcore raiders and many casual...

    What this means is whey im fighting agains DPS'ers on threat, we talk 5-8 people really crunshing the numbers up and above 5k... where the rest is far behind.

    - Patchwerk: We arent on sub 3 yet (hence not even close to sub 2), 3m11s so far, but top 5-8 DPS'ers does pull the number you refere to. As for the rest... well...

    - Sarth 3D: Atempting, yet far from home here, somewhere after second dragon and before third goes down it always goes sideways...

    If your tanking first add... ok... thats gonna be tough with the way it's burned... (we use druids here)...

    The rest shouldn't be an issue IMO, as long as your not trying to do 2 tanks job.



    That and then the next couple of responses youve made, where you draw on examples as Gothik the Harvester and then some on Trash...

    Gothik the Harvester

    Here i tank the living side these days alone, while we have 2 tanks doing the dead side. The reason for this is that even though we have DPS'ers going nutty with direct DPS on Death Knights that have not even reached me yet as well as heavy AoE, then i can manage this now.

    It DOES happen i lose a DK that goes for the crowd... but most of the times the times i do so, it's dead before it reaches the group, in other situations i taunt.

    For some reason i find it easyer to tank here with my back towards the spawn points and facing our group, this makes it easyer for me to see what's going on between me and the group so i can control the situation easyer.

    Obviously though i have this easyer than you in the nature of unholy, nothing wrong with frost as AoE, but as i understand it, it requres targets to be closer?... in my case i use Pest/BB, this is more than enough to get the mobs attention here.

    When i was "young" in naxx 25 i couln't and we therefore had 2 tanks on each side, and i was often on dead back then.

    Now the boss him self is somewhat different, hes very hard to manage threat wise, obviously becouse hes a caster, and you can't really get him to hit you for RS procs.... i always have DPS breathing in my neck here...

    As for Trash

    On trash we are always multiple tanks... actually we fight for aggro, something that somethimes bugs me, and othertimes it gives a nice chalange to do better... I can only say that i often ends up tanking by far the majority of a group.

    And we AoE most trash down btw.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    So im curios, you mention these things... but when it comes to it those are not what you wan't to talk about?

  5. #45
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    Oct 2008
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    I'm not talking about specific examples, I'm talking about the Rune system being somewhat frustrating in regards to reacting to unexpected situations arising. It's somewhat mandatory for a tank class to be able to react rapidly to dynamic changes in their environment, be it an AoE taunt, throwing a second AoE ability (Shockwave), or just hitting your Swipe key really hard, Death Knights lack any real ability to react to situations in the middle of a pull due to Runes. Sometimes you definitely can, but the fact that we as a class can't reliably react to an unexpected situation is a severe concern for me.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    I wouldnt consider my guild a true high end raiding guild although we are doing high end raiding, we are not doing sarth+2/3d and the harder achievements etc, not yet at least.

    I completely understand the concerns though and I am afraid the future does not look too great. Also I understand Blizzard is already looking into Blessing of Sanctuary but given that I had the pleasure óf grouping with a protection pally for our raid tonight the very first time I have to say I am shocked as to how efficent I could act thanks to his blessing.
    Your idea of a talent which works in a similar way generating rp if we avoid an attack is great. This cannot be right, I hope Blizzard will realize this soon and act accordingly.


    *Lack of an AoE Taunt
    *Minimal ability to react to situations such as additional mobs coming out of nowhere
    *Mediocre burst threat
    *Heavy reliance on Rune Strike
    *Lack of a means to generate more Runic Power than you normally could (regardless of if a boss hit you for 9000 or 9, you'd still be generating identical TPS)


    This is exactly what I see, all we can hope for is that Blizzard realizes what is going on but I doubt they will act before it is too late and the gap between death knights and the other tanks is massive.


    I'm talking about the Rune system being somewhat frustrating in regards to reacting to unexpected situations arising
    Well, this is exactly the situation Empowered Runeweapon is made for. There is no doubt of course replacing this skills effect with an easy to use - reliable 5 min cd aoe taunt would be awesome.

    While I immensely enjoy my class and also enjoy tanking more than tanking on my warrior and much much more than tanking on my druid it just feels that as a death knight tanking is too clunky and not flexible enough compared to other classes. I am not sure what Blizzard wants to tell us with removing pestilence damage and saying "use your other blood rune for blood boil, this is the way it is meant to be" either.

    In a worst case scenario with ERW and all runes on cd when getting an add - you just stand there, doing nothing, failing.
    Last edited by Mufuti; 02-10-2009 at 08:54 PM.

  7. #47
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by binatang View Post
    Regarding staggered spawn, I have more problem picking up Sartharion's adds and Tenebron's whelps than any trash mob pulls. At least I can pull back the trash mob. The whelps spawn right next to healers and ERW can only help me so much.
    The whelps seems to spawn at a very predictable time for me. Not sure if its a coincidence, but its usually tenebron announses whelps are hatched>flamewall>I put down DnD>whelps come. So far it has worked great, but ill admitt its hard to maintain good aggron on tenebron and the whelps at the same time.

    As for the adds i usually just taunt/deathgrip them and pest when they get in range. I dont get all that way, but its not realy needed as a ret pally etc can tank one untill i get aggro.

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