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Thread: Fury: Why bring one?

  1. #21
    Do you want to kill a boss? You're going to need DPS. Do you have a Fury warrior handy that can do good DPS? Bring him.

    That's essentially what it amounts to. You can make an argument of "why bring this class" for just about anyone. This is what the oft-misquoted "Bring the player, not the class" is all about. Bring good people to your raids and don't worry so much about whether their buffs are redundant.
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  2. #22
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    This may be out-dated thinking as well, but is melee range on many bosses significantly more dangerous than range? Or is it a case of that being true, but the means to avoid that danger are also based on player awareness and skill? I.e., knowing when to get the hell out of melee range, and where/where not to stand.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maullus View Post
    This may be out-dated thinking as well, but is melee range on many bosses significantly more dangerous than range? Or is it a case of that being true, but the means to avoid that danger are also based on player awareness and skill? I.e., knowing when to get the hell out of melee range, and where/where not to stand.
    Well there is Kel, but no raids will stack 20 melee so its a moot point.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    Those fury warriors need to join guilds with better tanks. If a DPSer is pulling threat anytime other than the first 15 seconds of a fight, thats a tank failing to do their job. Fury warriors give strong buffs, the ability to OT and high dps, what does a rogue give you, just high dps.


    Yea, gotta jump in on this one. If your Fury is pulling aggro off your tank, your tank needs to get his act together. Fury warrior or Arms warrior can give you a nice edge when things inevitably go bad.


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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahism View Post
    Whatever...

    If fury warriors didn't have these problems then they wouldn't be so rare. I could count how many fury warriors are on my server and the bulk of them are only fury because of the excess tank supply and their wanting of raid time.

    You're not making any sense. There is no lack of Fury warriors because of them being unable to cut loose because they are threat capped, that's just silly. There's no fury warrior that can bring in the DPS of a Mage or even a DK or Ret Pally for that matter and I don't hear anyone complaining that they are threat capped with their Mages. If you're seeing dead Fury's because they somehow pulled aggro then the answer is simply that your tank is inexperienced or unskilled or undergeared for the encounter or your Fury is doing something particularly stupid. If a tank can't hold aggro against a Fury then he certainly can't hold it against a Mage or DK and the raid is in tough shape to begin with.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackers View Post
    You're not making any sense. There is no lack of Fury warriors because of them being unable to cut loose because they are threat capped, that's just silly. There's no fury warrior that can bring in the DPS of a Mage or even a DK or Ret Pally for that matter and I don't hear anyone complaining that they are threat capped with their Mages. If you're seeing dead Fury's because they somehow pulled aggro then the answer is simply that your tank is inexperienced or unskilled or undergeared for the encounter or your Fury is doing something particularly stupid. If a tank can't hold aggro against a Fury then he certainly can't hold it against a Mage or DK and the raid is in tough shape to begin with.
    Actually fury wars can easily top the dps charts there bud

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by greendragonempire View Post
    Actually fury wars can easily top the dps charts there bud

    My point still stands Bud, Fury warriors aren't changing spec because they are threat capped or dying in droves because they are pulling aggro, simply isn't happening. If anyone is pulling threat off the tank, the tank needs to figure out why he is failing at his job.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maullus View Post
    This may be out-dated thinking as well, but is melee range on many bosses significantly more dangerous than range? Or is it a case of that being true, but the means to avoid that danger are also based on player awareness and skill? I.e., knowing when to get the hell out of melee range, and where/where not to stand.
    I don't think it's as bad as BC (like prince's 1 HP debuff) but it's still true...i know our healers complain about how our guild is 90% melee DPS now post COH/WG nerf. But it's still the same boat for rogues, DKs, enh shammies, ret pally, etc.. It's not really a "fury warrior" issue IMO.

    While i can't really think of a compelling reason to bring a fury warrior (like Replenishment for Ret), i can't think of a compelling reason to bring ANY particular DPS that isn't a ret pally or shadow priest. Replenishment is the only raid buff i pay attention to these days.

  9. #29
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    ... I have a fury warrior friend who pulls 11k tps on malygos 25 ...
    wtb fury threat dump


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahism View Post
    As a class fury warriors have it the worst when it comes to threat dumping. You can't dispute that.
    Granted I don't know all the classes or all the recent changes but:
    shamans
    ret pallies (unless they can hand of salvation themselves)
    boomkins (well they could go cat form and cower and back to chicken)

    Mage's also barely have an aggro dump (invis on 3 min timer, ice block doesn't change aggro), but my mage is only lvl 12 so I'm hardly an expert.

    Pretty sure DK's lack threat dumps too.

  11. #31
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    Tank get ready to pull, fury warrior pops bloodrage, recklesness, AP trinket, deathwish and open with a BT + WW .... oh I died, how did that happen?

    A fury warrior can easily pull threat in the first 20 seconds of a fight and die even without doing all of the above but with an equally geared tank they have no threat issues over the duration of a boss fight, on trash just be a little carefull. For a less geared tank a fury warrior does not have and "oh shit" I'm high on threat button so watch early and manage it and there is no problem.

    Why bring them,
    1) dps, fury warriors are some of the top dps.
    2) buff supplement if other classes are missing, battleshout, commanding shout, demo shout, sunder armour.
    3) OT either pre planned or macro a shield, shield wall and taunt and your an instant quick recovery tank.

  12. #32
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    If they can out-dps your other damage dealers, bring 2. Heck, bring 3.

  13. #33
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    Vigilance. This ability was invented to care for Fury Warriors. If you don't have a Prot warrior tanking, then you're shit out of luck.

    Remember, if the fury warrior is #1 in damage done for a fight, it doesn't matter if he had to hold back a bit because of threat cap. Hell, if he's second, third, or fourth on the list it doesn't matter.

  14. #34
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    "Bring the player, not the class." I was very skeptical of this phrase when it was repeated by Blizzard employees until they were blue in the face, but now I see their point. Every class is capable of decent to awesome DPS (with some exceptions for broken classes/specs) so you bring the guy/girl who knows their class/spec and can prevent their own death by not doing anything stupid.

    Fury warriors are no different. They bring great buffs (health/AP, 5% crit) that combine the buffs from multiple classes (paladins, druids, and a warlock's imp) into one player. That's quite handy to have if you don't have all three of those classes in your group/raid. But if they're a good player who knows the encounters and knows how to not die while doing good DPS then there's no reason not to take them. The same can be said for any class with some exceptions based on the achievement you're going for during a certain encounter.

    As for the threat dump people have been calling for it's not necessary. A fight like Malygos where you can have +100% damage while the tank does not is not a problem. That's a single, isolated encounter where you're doing so much damage that you can afford to slow down if you have to and no one will blame you. If you pull on Patchwerk you're either doing something wrong (popping everything immediately which is pointless anyway due to the lack of a full sunder stack at that point) or your tank is doing something very wrong.

    Having too many melee can be a problem where there's AoE from the boss that targets a random player. That's just a risk you choose to take or not take with any melee class, not just a fury warrior.

    Obviously not every raid leader thinks of it like that. If you're still trying to minmax in this expansion on every encounter then you have a problem and you're already overdoing it.
    Last edited by Aldaron; 02-05-2009 at 04:59 AM.

  15. #35
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    Someone has to take the excess tank gear that drops else it would be de'd.

    That's my job.

  16. #36
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    If you're looking for something the Fury warrior has that can't be picked up somewhere else, there really isn't anything -- Battle Shout is comparable to Blessing of Might. Commanding Shout is comparable to blood pact (though CS is bigger) and/or could be covered by another spec warrior. Rampage is comparable to Leader of the Pack. Demo shout and Thunderclap can be handled by another spec warrior.

    But the same can be said for most buffs these days (a la "bring the player not the class" mantra). If you can bring a mediocre feral druid or a good fury warrior, then bring the one that's good.

    As far as "too many melee" -- there are fights it's a hassle, yes. I haven't run into one yet that it was too much to deal with, yet (though I haven't faced KT yet - but I did clear all 4 wings with a 10 man that had 3 healers, a shadow priest, and the rest melee). And considering the buffs are redundant with those brought by a pally or a feral druid, odds are high you'd be looking at another melee to get them anyway (holy pally being the only non-melee exception).

    So is there an overwhelming reason to bring a fury warr? probably not. Is there an overwhelming reason to bring something else instead though? Not really. Bring the one that gets the job done.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by blahism View Post
    I think the person was asking why bring a fury warrior when 9 out of 10 times they're nothing but dead. Seriously.. until fury get some sort of rage dump they can never operate at capacity and are gimped with healers letting them die because they pulled aggro/too much hate.

    They need to seriously give fury warriors something so they can "bow down" and manage their threat rather then be left for dead.. just my 2 cents
    If fury warriors are dying in your raids, your tanks arent doing their jobs. Depending on the fight we will get the fury to demo and sunder up.

    Imp shouts, quick OT swaps when needed. I think you are living in an old day when Fury warriors were frowned upon, now they have become one of the highest dps classes, with great raid attributes.

    Bring the fury's
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  18. #38
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    I stopped reading about halfway through the first page. All the talk of Fury Wars needing to control their threat, or needing an aggro drop is BS. I've got pretty good gear, not the best but damn good. I almost never pull aggro. I think sapphiron, malygos and maybe 1 or 2 others are the only fights where threat is an issue. If you're a DPS war, or any DPS for that matter and you're pulling aggro then your tank isn't putting out the threat you need. I push myself hard every fight popping CDs when they come up from the start and usually end up far behind our MT in threat.an aggro drop would be nice you don't need one and it vertainly shouldn't be the reason you don't bring one of us. Thanks.

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  19. #39
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    Thanks, I have a much better understanding now; as I said, I think I was coming from an out-dated perspective and, perhaps, still had a bit of the dps warrior stigma from ages ago despite the numerous examples dispelling that antiquated idea.

  20. #40
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    Two Sartharion Parses

    Sartharion

    Sartharion


    The fury warrior is top each time. Both cases I kept threat no problem from him during the initial drake hero+all cooldowns. So IMHO if threat is an issue the caliber of guild is the issue not the fury warrior.

    Granted part of that is the player, but I can go farther.

    Commanding is more HP then a warlock pet (and more then a protection warriors commanding), and does not require the extra work that the latter two need to put in to make sure the other tanks get the buff. I love my Fury warrior ESPECIALLY on Sartharion where it's a HUGE pain for me to refresh commanding on our bear tank on Sartharion.

    Rampage is great when you don't have the feral nearby (10 man sartharion), and in progression the redundancy is always nice.

    Demo/TC I don't really consider as two of the four tanks can do those.


    Also, you have to realize that most high end guilds like to keep a balance of classes. Right now fury is better to bring than arms. In 3.1 with the changes to arms we might make all our fury warriors respec arms.

    If we were going to kick a class just because they offer no buffs and are kinda shitty dps at this time then lets boot all the hunters that got nerfed to hell? Things go in cycles, if you completely overhauled your recruitment to go with flavors of the month you'd never build a good guild.


    For a pug sure, bring whomever you want, but you'd never see a high end guild sitting a fury warrior for being a fury warrior.

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