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Thread: How can Blizzard increase Prot DPS?

  1. #1
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    How can Blizzard increase Prot DPS?

    Greetings,

    I wanted to start up a discussion on ways Blizzard can make changes to talents to increase Protection Spec DPS when not being hit. This is a growing concern over warriors in the community in that relative Tank Specced Druids and DKs can change into their DPS gear and do respectable DPS while protection Warriors change into their DPS gear and simply can't contribute nearly as much. Back in TBC, this wasn't as much of an issue since dual wield devastate offered a decent alternative. However, in recent times, the prot spec advancements really skew Prot DPS into two schools of thought...those true with the dual wield devastate, and those using Shield Slam.

    So, what are some ways Blizzard can make changes to abilities or spec to increase Prot DPS? Here are my thoughts.

    1) Provide a system for consistent rage generation in a one hander / shield setup.

    Rage starvation!! I think the main reason Feral Druids and DKs can do so well is because they have a resource renewable by time in terms of energy and runes. Rage, on the other hand, is generated when dealing damage or getting hit. Currently, we simply do not deal enough damage in a one hander/shield setup. Heck, even back in the day, rage generation with a two hander in the arms tree led to starvation which is why we got Endless Rage in the Arms tree for a talent.

    Add an effect to an existing high tier prot talent (like critical block or damage shield) so that we're wearing a shield, then either we get more rage per swing like Unbridled Wrath or we get a rage per second bonus like Anger Management.

    2) Make Attack Power add to Shield Slam damage.

    Nowadays, so many prot warrior abilities rely on high AP, such as Thunderclap, Revenge, Concussion Blow, and Shockwave. However, Shield Slam still relies on Block Value. So many warriors out there stack +block value pieces for harder shield slams, but all of our other attacks suffer since these pieces are all on tank related gear loaded with non-dps stats. Yes, I remember that time when Shield Slam came out it was based on AP and warriors had an uproar because with that itemization during that time, AP didn't scale with the warrior Tier pieces. Nowadays, that isn't the case at all. It's time to update Shield Slam to match our other prot warrior skills and current itemization.

    3) Let Shield Block be usable in any stance.

    Haha, I've been clamoring for this for a while now, and this is more of a distant third compared to the first two.. Activating Shield Block is what brings out the big Shield Slams, but DPSing in defensive stance simply isn't a smart thing to do. Having Shield Block boost Shield Slams in Battle/Berserker stance would be nifty.

    What do you think can be changed?
    Stay strong. Stay smart. All heart.

  2. #2
    Currently it seems like non-tanking Protection Warrior DPS is right next to the Protection Paladin's DPS in terms of being pretty useless on fights where there is no offtanking needed.

    Honestly, I'm fairly certain that Blizzard must feel that Dual-Talent Specializations are going to be implemented sooner rather than later and therefore it's not an investment of developer time that they're willing to make.

  3. #3
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    Give use shield dual-wielding abilities, and make shield look fiercer so we can look like incredible hulks! 2 x shield slams! Wootage.

    Or give us "sore wounds", procced from blocked attacks to apply a DoT ticking ap/1000 per tick for 20 seconds, stackable 20 times.

    "Enrage Countermeasures" incoming hits have the chance to gives the warrior 30 AP buff for 10 seconds, and once 5 stacks is applied the warrior gains 150 AP, 3% crit and 3 rage/second for 10 seconds and may not gain the buff again for the next 1 minute.

    Or Talent to give us AP from block value.

  4. #4
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    If you're talking about ability overhauls... there's an easy way to let prot warriors do awesome dps when ~not~ tanking: a ranged stance.

    Probably not the solution anyone wants to see, but imagine if your prot warrior could go stand with the hunters and compete with them at their own game.

  5. #5
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    Nobody specs protection for DPS.

    Pretty much period. Be happy you can bust out 2,500 on Patchwerk.

  6. #6
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    How about an ability that generates rage when a party member is struck?

    It would give practically no benefits to a Prot Tank, but to a Prot DPS it would give a steady stream of rage as the actual tank is being hit. Maybe make it a targetable ability like Vigilance, but only one may be active at a time (to stop you casting it on an Offtank and getting a mass of free rage while being MT).

    So something along the lines of:

    --------------------

    Guardian's Fury

    Instant Cast. Duration 30 minutes. Whenever the target of Guardian's Fury is struck in combat, the caster gains ?? Rage.

    -----------------

    Rage generation from this skill could be equivilent to the rage the Warrior would generate if he was the one thing struck. Or maybe half as much. Either way, it would solve Prot Rage starvation, and make them a viable class to play in PvP (if they double team with another 'tank' spec, for example).

    Lastly, allowing Overpower to be used in Defense Stance would be pretty amazing. Would encourage you not to stack Expertise, however, since you want those mobs to dodge you.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    --------------------

    Guardian's Fury

    Instant Cast. Duration 30 minutes. Whenever the target of Guardian's Fury is struck in combat, the caster gains ?? Rage.

    -----------------
    I love this - but surly this could just be rolled in to vigilance its self? As you said, when you're actually tanking rage isn't really a problem (and the person with vigilance shouldn't be hit anyway), but when you're not tanking, whack it on the MT (which I normally do anyway, for the dmg reduction) and watch the rage come in.

    I don't see a downside to this at all.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alent View Post
    If you're talking about ability overhauls... there's an easy way to let prot warriors do awesome dps when ~not~ tanking: a ranged stance.

    Probably not the solution anyone wants to see, but imagine if your prot warrior could go stand with the hunters and compete with them at their own game.
    Boomerang: decreases the cooldown on your heroic throw ability to 1 second, can only be use in ranged stance.

    :P

  9. #9
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    Rage starvation is the main issue while not tanking. We cannot spam Heroic Strike which is 40% of our dps in infinite rage situations.
    But you forgot the fact that Revenge can not be used also. That is 10-15% of our dps.

  10. #10
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    Problem with rolling it into Vigiliance is that it also generates you threat. Which as DPS now doing a good amount of damage is not ideal.

    Unless Blizzard changes is to not generate threat anymore. In which case keeping aggro as a tank will become ALOT harder in raids as now your top DPS will be pulling aggro alot.

    I think it would be best to have them seperate. Though I'm not sure what would be removed to make room for it. Safeguard, perhaps? Does anyone use that talent?

  11. #11
    [Big Brother] (replaces Vigilance)
    Focus your protective gaze on a group or raid target, reducing their damage taken by 3% and transfers 10% of the threat they cause to you. In addition, each time they are hit by an attack your Taunt cooldown is refreshed. Lasts 30 min. If casted on warrior who casted it on you - you both gain full rage from all abilities from both of you. This effect can only be on one target at a time.

    ***
    Whatever, lost myself... but here is the catch... Between 2 warrior tanks vigilance don't transfer threat but gains rage...

  12. #12
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    This is a subject close to my heart as a dedicated warrior OT. I am not convinced by people saying that dual specs will solve it all, even if it just takes a portal, run to trainer, click button and a summon back - who is seriously going to bother if the fights go - 3 tanks - 1 tank - 4 tank. My guild raids 7 hours (total) a week, we pull fast to give ourselves maximum time, and our dps makes up the missing numbers on fights with less than 3 tanks, I cannot see myself respeccing between boss fights - unless there is 2 or 3 in a row I can respec for.
    **Give me a hug and I'll defend you with my life**
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
    This is a subject close to my heart as a dedicated warrior OT. I am not convinced by people saying that dual specs will solve it all, even if it just takes a portal, run to trainer, click button and a summon back - who is seriously going to bother if the fights go - 3 tanks - 1 tank - 4 tank. My guild raids 7 hours (total) a week, we pull fast to give ourselves maximum time, and our dps makes up the missing numbers on fights with less than 3 tanks, I cannot see myself respeccing between boss fights - unless there is 2 or 3 in a row I can respec for.
    They've specifically said they don't want this though as it would negate the benefits of having a dual spec. They literally want it so that you press the respec button *anywhere* and you instantly change spec and glyphs. No links though unfortunately I heard it during a Blizzcon Panel.

  14. #14
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    Thats news to me, last time I heard it would definitely involve travelling back to a city; would love confirmation. Although unless we get a lot more dps drops my gear is still going to be pretty shocking
    **Give me a hug and I'll defend you with my life**
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  15. #15
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    They've said something along these lines:
    "Dual spec can't be any more inconvenient then hearthing and getting a warlock to summon you back to the raid".

    But I've also seen them say there should be some benefit to doing it in a city as opposed to in an instance (whatever that means). However, then you end up hearthing and getting a lock summon anyways. So, it sounds like they still haven't decided if it's a button, visiting your trainer, or what the exact mechanism for changing specs is yet.

    To counter balance - they've said they don't want dual speccing to be a mandatory part of raiding, as in they won't design raids where you'll need 10 tanks for one fight, then 10 healers for another. But from their hearth -> lock comments, they seem to understand that hardcore players are gonna use dual spec for raiding anyways (and most OT's / extra healers I'm sure).

  16. #16
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    Heres the clip I was thinking of

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4D5X6WicdY"]YouTube - Blizzcon 2008 - Class Panel Video - Dual Spec feature[/ame]

    Ok so maybe not *anywhere* but he specifically mentioned not having to go back to cities during raids.
    Last edited by Clav; 02-04-2009 at 01:52 AM.

  17. #17
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    Damn what annoys me is that Protection gets very nice crit % (10-15%) for different attacks now from talents but none from the gear. Ok, that crit is ok and awesome atm but what happens in Ulduar or maybe after that, nowadays druids gets crit from their gear and ofc they get higher crit with Ulduar gear, but warriors don't! give some crit to plate tank gear, i don't mean to get that much but even a little, because our crit will be same always otherwise.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
    Thats news to me, last time I heard it would definitely involve travelling back to a city; would love confirmation. Although unless we get a lot more dps drops my gear is still going to be pretty shocking

    We haven't finalized the design, because ideally we want to be able to get it on a PTR and have players try it out.

    Our thought at the moment is that swapping specs (going from A to B) will truly be free in towns and possibly during the prep phase of PvP. In an instance it may cost a nominal fee (think reagent level). We want you to be able to do it when you want to do it, but we also don't want to slow things down if everyone is constantly flipping spec from fight to fight. But if it's free in town, then obviously it can't be more of a burden out of town than just hearthing and being summoned back is or nobody will use the remote option.

    Someone helpfully quoted our response on why we are likely to launch the feature with "only" 2 specs.
    World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Dual-specs, questions for the devs

  19. #19
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    As mentioned early one - main issue is rage generation, prot specced you cannot generate the rage as DPS from a standing start. Bloodrage, Beserker Rage, Charge, Intervene can provide spikes but it isn't there on a prolonged single target fight, or swapping between multiple bosses.

    Logically an abillity (glyph even) to have enough basic go faster juice to press buttons every second or two would resolve the issue. However, if it was an ability people would just use it for extra rage in rotation, or when rage starved due to avoidance/overgearing and it would just turn out to be a threat boost for warriors. I can't see how people wouldn't use it, especially with rage starvation being an issue now as it was in the past.

    The real issue is the same one that rage generation, and the spikyness of it is the same turgid lump that it was a while back, and you can see it with threat plateaus from various posts on this and other forums. Easy to see why they want dual specs in postpone ever actually fixing ropey mechanics.
    Former TBC/LK Tank
    Waiting for Dunmail Jnr to sleep to enable online gaming.

  20. #20
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    I don't think it makes much sense from Blizzards stand point to spend development time on prot DPS while not tanking. The dual spec pretty much makes it a non issue.

    Although I'll agree that prot rage generation while not taking damage is a real issue. But a complicated one. Even Brutallus didn't give us as much rage as I've got now on Patch25 while tanking. And he's an entry level boss. Going forward to actual challenging encounters, rage becomes a complete non-issue, and you may as well just turn heroic strike into an auto attack, which seems silly. Between trying to balance around raid bosses that can actually risk tank death, and PVP ( warrior v holy pally anyone? ), rage is in a strange place right now. It'll be interesting to see what they change with regards to BoSanc and rage generation, and whether they change anything with regards to heroic strike on any mob that actually hits hard enough to matter. And the difference in TPS and DPS between being able to HS 100% of the time and not is enormous. Heck, if a prot warrior DPSing could somehow generate enough rage to HS every swing, the DPS concerns would be quite a bit smaller.

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