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Thread: Obsidian Sanctum Sartharion (3 Drakes)

  1. #61
    An exploit being used on a fight that arbitrarily shuts out specific classes from performing their normal roles and emphasizes a Death knight's advantages over other tanks in their AoE threat and defensive cooldowns. I think anything that opens up more options in a fight that's as biased towards certain raid comps like Sarth 3D is worthwhile.

  2. #62
    Yo Cider!

    Awesome video (and project tbh)! I have a couple questions:

    What unit frames are you using, and where do you get your tunes!?

    thanks!

  3. #63
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    It makes no rational sense to call this an exploit. Period. Stop talking about it. That conversation is over.

    Again, like Cider said previously, it doesn't mean that the mechanics of this fight will always remain this way. However, for now, this stategy is an adequate use of ability and skill to defeat a difficult boss. Kill him however you desire. Just because the folks at Blizzard might not have invisioned this idea that can't discredit the fact that others have, given the skillset and abilities set before them.

    Dont forget to enjoy the game, guys.
    Last edited by Lilie; 02-05-2009 at 03:00 PM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by swelt View Post
    Creative use of game mechanics, I like it But I'm not sure that we'll switch to it.

    Instead, we've been making good progress using another mechanic (not mentioned here or in the Fusion guide, but becoming a topic over at EJ) and that is Fire Resistance.

    The way resistance works has changed. There are now certain thresholds which give you a guaranteed minimum resist.
    104 - minimum damage resistance 10%
    178 - minimum damage resistance 20%
    277 - minimum damage resistance 30%
    415 - minimum damage resistance 40%
    I wear 277 FR in our strat as well.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjb147 View Post
    When Sarth 3D was designed, using any taunt to avoid a breath was not feasible. Paladins did not have a single target taunt and warriors taunt range was not large enough range to make taunt/intervene useful.
    Both Paladins and Warriors were perfectly capable of doing this prior to 3.0.8 and both of these classes are the ones that cannot realistically tank Sartharion on their own.

    Paladins did have the range, and Paladins did not have issues on a single target fight with no other adds attacking the MT when using Righteous Defense.

    Warriors were able to do this with a Taunt/Intervene, which is what we originally tested.

    Hunters have a 41 yard Taunt and don't need to move an inch.

    These are not new game mechanics. This is similar to Intervening the Shear so a non-Warrior can tank Illidan.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwegburt View Post
    An exploit being used on a fight that arbitrarily shuts out specific classes from performing their normal roles and emphasizes a Death knight's advantages over other tanks in their AoE threat and defensive cooldowns. I think anything that opens up more options in a fight that's as biased towards certain raid comps like Sarth 3D is worthwhile.
    Well said. Very well said. I come from a guild that doesn't happen to have any DK tanks (well we just picked one up a couple days ago) and had our Druid tank leave over a month ago. Basically we have 3 warriors and a Pally. That's basically it. On this fight we take a combo of three out of the four. It was hard as hell (way harder than it should be), but I'm happy to say we downed this guy this week...and I was the Prot Warrior Main Tank...we even managed it with no taunts...just rotation of cooldowns.

    Though I am disappointed to say we would have downed this guy weeks ago if we happened to be lucky enough to have a tank class that fits this fight's specifications better.

    Moral of the story is a Warrior tank can MT this encounter with the use of cooldowns and a little luck...but boy is it a PITA. I really really hope blizzard designs encounters better than this misery in the future.

  7. #67
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    My guild has done 2 drakes(Tenebron/Vesperon) very well recently. Our DPS is high, very few deaths from flame walls/fissures. Tonight will be our first attempt doing 3D and doing plenty of research, we've decided on using this strategy as our go-to strategy.

    Our feral tank likes the KISS strategy, keep it simple stupid. This seems to be less prone to error with one person in charge of "negating the breath" and allows one of our priest healers to stay in Divine Spirit to increase DPS =).

    Our original goal was to try to work Shadron in with 1 other drake up to experience Shadron before attempting 3, however, with extra time on our hands, we're going for the big bang. I'll be playing Cider's role tonight and really hope this works well. Always a big plus to have that title before some of those competitive guilds!

    Thanks Cider for the great vid,
    Enemy of Staghelm

  8. #68
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    graf from vodka is a warrior who has main tanked 3d for them since week one and has never had to rely heavily on others cooldowns, if done properly the tank will eat 1 max 2 breaths per vesperon add

    vesperon alive, shadron alive, vesperon add alive, shadron add alive, unless all 4 of those are present a tank will not get 1shot unless they are severely undergeared to begin with

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    It's not an exploit. There's a good argument to be made that it may be unintended since Twilight Torment dancing was removed, and we'll find out next patch whether that's the case.

    also, twilight torment was never meant to go away when you took damage from it, i have a feeling the original version of twilight torment was the bug. this version is here to stay im confident about that.

    if you had to rely on that immunity to beat the encounter then you are either to undergeared for it or using the wrong strat as xav and others have said.

    this is a VERY innovative way of doing this encounter and i hope blizzard does not change the breathe range. i believe that while possibly unintended it is a totally legit way of beating the encounter (although until you explained it i was like WTF are you doing running around doing nothing cider O.o)



  9. #69
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    So what is the range of flame breath then? The skill is listed as 45 yards.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjb147 View Post
    So what is the range of flame breath then? The skill is listed as 45 yards.
    Wowhead is listed as 45 yards, but in-game it's 30 yards out from where you can taunt him. If you stand perfectly at 30 yards, you can take 1 step backwards. (I'm not as exact b/c I'm raid leading at the same time, so I move a little farther to be safe)

  11. #71
    Can someone answer about the dps and tank requirements? Sorry for being so persistant, but I kinda want to get to it sometime pre patch 3.1
    Gertiploiss, the tank without a cause or reason.

  12. #72
    Join Date
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    The 45 yard range probably starts at the center of Sartharion, while the 30 yard taunt range only needs to hit his massive hit box.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    Wowhead is listed as 45 yards, but in-game it's 30 yards out from where you can taunt him. If you stand perfectly at 30 yards, you can take 1 step backwards. (I'm not as exact b/c I'm raid leading at the same time, so I move a little farther to be safe)
    Killed him last night using this tactic

    As for the quote, it is in fact 30 yards. The first night we tried that I was taunting and died a few times because I was too close. Yesterday I fixed my positioning and it all went fine.

    For people claiming this as an exploit, tbh I dont think this strat is easier than the other 2 or 3 strategies we had before. Basically the ones before relied on either a DK tanking (which made it completely trivial), or a druid tanking with palas and priests having to focus on protecting him. We had neither of those in a good proportion, we have no DK tank and we have a low amount of priests and palas (to the date). Therefore this new strategy enabled us to kill him, since we had the skill for it, just not the correct classes.

    A word again, If you think this is easy, go ahead and try. It is quite hard really.


    Oh and regarding dps and tank requirements, I felt confident on our dps yesterday so I brought 8 healers and 5 tanks into the fight. It went extra smooth since as long as you can kill Tenebron in time for me to move to my taunting spot before vesperon lands, then its fine. But you can do it with a range of 6-8 healers, and 3-5 tanks (depends on how good your tanks are grabbing adds, or how good your raid is noticing void zones, etc, we just went the safe way)

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertiploiss View Post
    Can someone answer about the dps and tank requirements? Sorry for being so persistant, but I kinda want to get to it sometime pre patch 3.1
    DPS --> Can kill Tenebron before Shadron lands. If you can do that, you have the DPS for either strategy.
    Tanks --> 30k unbuffed for Warriors/Paladins/DKs, 40k for Druids? Something in that range. HP is your most valuable asset.

  15. #75
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    Could you please be kind enough and post a list of your addons used in the movie?

    Also I am particularly interested in the unit frames you are using and your rage bar. Very clean and easy to see outside peripheral vision.

    Much obliged.

  16. #76
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    Many Thx

  17. #77
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    addons?

    hey this is likin from zuluhed realm can u tell me wat addons u used in that video??

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    DPS --> Can kill Tenebron before Shadron lands. If you can do that, you have the DPS for either strategy.
    K. So i did the math accorded to wowhead. He has 2,231,200 health and you have 45 seconds to kill him. With your make up you had approximatly 14 dps.

    2,231,200/45= 49582.2
    49582.2/14= 3541.58

    Around 3,5k dps per person. I'm not sure how it's possible on normal if this is the case for both levels. I need to check out OS after reset
    Gertiploiss, the tank without a cause or reason.

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Ciderhelm's UI

    Merry Christmas. There is already a long thread devoted to Cider's UI, along with compilation of said UI, all found at above link.

  20. #80
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    Feb 2009
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    thank you VERY much for that clarification. I am new here...

    I could add to his ui with a lot of my own customisation which focuses on visually clean ui for movie making. He could improve a lot. I will get back to you once I have implemented my ui with those custom numeric displays.

    Btw recently purchased a custom made system driven by fully SSD drives and 16G ram, quad SLI to record wow at best visual settings from software and hardware without impacting game performance.

    The ultimate cameraman
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