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Thread: Obsidian Sanctum Sartharion (3 Drakes)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurken View Post
    Isn't using taunt in this fashon some sort of exploit, or at least un-intended. Wasn't Brutallus fixed for the same reason? They may extend the range of the breath.

    I tank Sartharion as prot war and they burn Shadron so fast that I use Shieldwall on first breath and if breaths are too fast and dps slack we have setup a rotation of guardian spirit and Hand of Protection from my healers. Last kill it was enough with shieldwall, DKs needed, ya right
    I can't see remotely how Taunt is an exploit. Blizzard has pretty much officially moved away from untauntable mobs, with a very small number of exceptions.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kavtor View Post
    It's not the threat component, but the taunt refresh that makes the difference. Being able to taunt basically every 2 seconds makes cleaning up adds pretty simple.
    Aha! Having only run Heroics, where it isn't really needed, and single-target stuff like Vault 10/25, I had completely forgotten about that effect of Vigilance!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezimodnar View Post
    Quick question on your tanking setup. Obviously yourself and your feral are dealing with Sartharion himself, but how many of the remaining three are use for the drakes and adds?
    I'll be going into more detail once I get a healing write up.
    One(warrior)tank has drakes, one(warrior)tank has adds. We had a DK helping with adds and it became much easier to deal with them.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Grimace View Post
    I can't see remotely how Taunt is an exploit. Blizzard has pretty much officially moved away from untauntable mobs, with a very small number of exceptions.
    You misunderstand, everything is tauntable now, that's not the issue.
    Back in the day some people used paladins to do this kind of thing with Brutallus making his mechanic of the stacking slashes neglible.

    This removes the huge breath issue with some clever use of ingame mechanics and don't suprised if Blizz adds some breathrange to Sartharion just as they did to Brutallus.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    Why so much editing? Are you hiding something?
    Our DPS got decimated when our drake tank went down. There's no way of overstating that. The kill took us 15 minutes and YouTube only accepts 10 minute movies. If you want to watch the whole thing, I'll have it up on Filefront (and, of course, it's up here on TankSpot for Donors).
    Why would losing 1/10th of your DPSers cause the fight to take so much longer? O.o

    /smartass

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Petersin View Post
    Why would losing 1/10th of your DPSers cause the fight to take so much longer? O.o

    /smartass

    So much longer than what? It is a long fight to begin with, the 10 min restriction isn't self imposed. It is a youtube thing. That isn't to say that it cant be done faster but I would say that 15 min is a good length.

  7. #27
    You couldn't by chance be able to post a WWS from one of your guild's three drakes kill, or could you?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurken View Post
    Isn't using taunt in this fashon some sort of exploit, or at least un-intended. Wasn't Brutallus fixed for the same reason? They may extend the range of the breath.

    I tank Sartharion as prot war and they burn Shadron so fast that I use Shieldwall on first breath and if breaths are too fast and dps slack we have setup a rotation of guardian spirit and Hand of Protection from my healers. Last kill it was enough with shieldwall, DKs needed, ya right
    Finding a way to approach a boss that the developers did not foresee using abilities they are not abusing in an unintended way is not an exploit. There's nothing that defies the games mechanics when two tanks cast taunts. They are neither negating themselves from the possibility of harm or error, or influencing Sarth's ability to use his attack. If someone happened to be in the way behind Sarth they would still be hit. If the attack were meant to be unavoidable then it would be a focused attack, not directional cone.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cacciatore View Post
    If the attack were meant to be unavoidable then it would be a focused attack, not directional cone.
    That's just not true, again back to Brutallus, Cone attack, meant to be unavoidable. Cone attacs that are avoidable are when the boss is stationary during the attack. Like last boss in Utgarde Keep. Sartharion tracks the highest aggro during the cast of the breath and follows if you run or turn.

    Would like to hear from Ciderhelm if there was any discussions in guild when this was discovered if it was right to use it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cacciatore View Post
    Finding a way to approach a boss that the developers did not foresee using abilities they are not abusing in an unintended way is not an exploit. There's nothing that defies the games mechanics when two tanks cast taunts. They are neither negating themselves from the possibility of harm or error, or influencing Sarth's ability to use his attack. If someone happened to be in the way behind Sarth they would still be hit. If the attack were meant to be unavoidable then it would be a focused attack, not directional cone.
    I'm with Gnurken. Calling this an exploit is strong, to be sure. Though that doesn't mean they won't change the distance on the breaths to prevent this strat going forward. If the Devs want to force players to deal with the high damage of the breaths (much like they wanted to force players to deal with the healing intensive brutallus slashes) they will find away.

    I first watched this video and really really liked the strat. My guild is currently working on Sarth 3D and are close to getting it...though we do have MT deaths sometimes. I briefly considered bringing this approach up to my guild to try it out...but after reading the feedback and thinking about it more I don't think we should for fear that eventually a Brutallus-like change could become reality and we might have to learn the fight all over again (doing it basically exactly as we're attempting to now). It's an awesome video but it'd probably take several attempts for our group to get use to (as Cider's guild positions him differently than we do, and practice getting the taunts off properly, etc...). I think we'd lose half a night adopting a new strat at this point and really we know the strat we've got will work, we've been working on him long enough we just want to down him already.

  11. #31
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    My biggest question is this:

    Using this strat, is there anything we would need to be concerned about with the MT/MT Healers in regard to Sarth's tail swipe? Or is it just never an issue?

    I could see a case where MT gets stunned and is unable to taunt back and since the Taunt Tank is potentially out of range of heals getting gibbed.

  12. #32
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    Tough call here. Firstly I'd say it is a creative solution to the breathes that Blizzard probably didn't anticipate when they changed taunt mechanics.

    When things like this happen I think it rests on Blizzard to step up and make a statement or change the mechanics of his breath. Of course, I'm sure many of us saw these types of things coming after ranged taunts were added. Not exactly sure why they did in the first place. Anyone have reference to why they did?

    If this is considered an exploit then what about the hunter distracting shot rotation on Razuvious? No one knows for sure but Blizzard probably never thought about that possibility and they haven't done anything to fix it.

  13. #33
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    Nice strat, very creative I never would have thought of doing Sarth this way.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnurken View Post
    Isn't using taunt in this fashon some sort of exploit, or at least un-intended. Wasn't Brutallus fixed for the same reason? They may extend the range of the breath.
    It's not an exploit. There's a good argument to be made that it may be unintended since Twilight Torment dancing was removed, and we'll find out next patch whether that's the case.

    I'm not terribly concerned for a few reasons, though.

    First, this strategy takes two tanks to do what one tank (Death Knight) was already capable of. If you want a tank other than a Death Knight to handle Sartharion and eat the breaths, you're already cycling abilities like Guardian Spirit -- which causes you to take a breath and die, then get a freebie saving heal. That doesn't strike me as much different than having a player dedicated to taunting him to avoid breaths we know will kill our tank.

    Second, this shifts responsibility and adds complexity rather than removing it. We already have a lineup of players ready to Guardian Spirit, Divine Shield w/ Divine Guardian, Sacrifice, etc., to cycle abilities on our tank, and we use most of these in this video. The taunt strategy is a redundancy with failsafes, like many of our strategies.

    Finally, this has always been possible to do via a Taunt/Intervene macro or a quick Hunter shot (Hunters naturally outrange Sartharion).

    It may very well be unintended. The strategy is not so different, however, that we're going to suddenly be unable to kill him if they change his breath range, since we can do essentially the same thing with a Death Knight taunting and cycling cooldowns, or just continue as-is using only cooldowns from other classes to keep Manbear alive.


    Keep in mind, for every Brutallus, you can also point to a Chromaggus or Firemaw, where the strategy was specifically to avoid abilities and most guilds assumed it was exploiting because it had never been done before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Petersin View Post
    Why would losing 1/10th of your DPSers cause the fight to take so much longer? O.o

    /smartass
    //edit: halp!

  15. #35
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    The smartass is pedantically referring to your use of the word decimate to describe heavy losses (which is now a commonly accepted definition, but only recently)
    Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!

  16. #36
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    Hats off to you Cider, seeing a video of the fight really shows just how complex it is. My head is still spinning a bit.
    Tanks: We like it rough.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satrina View Post
    The smartass is pedantically referring to your use of the word decimate to describe heavy losses (which is now a commonly accepted definition, but only recently)
    When I originally used the word, I actually was using it in the correct context. Sleep made me forget this.

    Saying this since decimate can also mean to bring down to 10%. Bit of hyperbole, but we were probably only at 30% DPS output after that.

  18. #38
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    Just throwing this out there, but my rogues guild runs 3 tanks, 5-6 healers, 16-17 dps and we kill Tenebron before Shadron lands, and Shadron is *usually* dead if not at most 5% left when Vesperon lands.

  19. #39
    Wow.

    Taunting him to avoid the breath is brilliant.

    My guild hasn't gotten this achievement yet, we're having problems keeping our Sarth tank alive after Vesp lands; your method will make beating him much easier.

    I've gotta say, it wouldn't surprise me if this gets nerfed, and we log in one day to find Sarth untauntable.

  20. #40
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    Was there a link provided to the filefront page with the whole movie on it, or did I missed that?

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