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Thread: Hit vs. Expertise

  1. #1
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    Hit vs. Expertise

    The discussion recently came up in the shoutbox as to whether or not expertise or hit is better to gear for. Now it is fact that until 26 expertise at which point you push dodge off of the combat table expertise is better because you are reducing both chance to be dodge and chance to be parried simultaneously meaning you are getting 2 for the price of one.

    After the soft cap however the question becomes which is more valuable to you the mitigation from parry (less parry gibs) or the more abilities affected by hit (Shockwave, Thunder Clap, Heroic Throw, Taunt all cannot be parried but can miss). In my personal opinion I believe the benefit from the hit is more beneficial at this time in raiding because the parry gib seems fairly insignificant and these moves are fairly decent threat/dps moves and taunt can be crucial for some fights such as Gluth.

    Inevitably I do believe this comes down to personal preference, as each have their advantages.
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  2. #2
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    Speaking from a deathknights perspective I try to balance both a bit but my own feelings for DK's leans to the hit side considering the monumental loss a disease not being applied could effect threat. In the current bit of WotLK raiding no encounter is so tough that any of it seriously matters though... Threat is pretty easy to come by, and about any healer can keep a good tank up through about any situation, and Parry gibs seem to me like a thing of yesterdays raiding...

  3. #3
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    Right now the only boss that could really be a danger with parry gib is Patchwerk, and he has the parry haste mechanic disabled. Given that, I've been making sure I am dodge capped with expertise, then choosing gear to have the best combined hit+expertise value.

    When Ulduar comes, we shall see.
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  4. #4
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    At least for w*****rs Satrina speaks of teh truth. Expertise is twice better than Hit till the dodges are out. From there it's a toss up on whichever has a bigger sum.

  5. #5
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    I agree with Satrina. I know Vene takes the opposite view in his blog.

    After the softcap, this is what you're looking as a comparison.
    Hit - dps, utility
    Exp - survivability

    Of course exp gives you dps too, but not as much as hit at this point. Ditto for survivability (being able to apply thunderclaps consistently is way inferior to pushing parries off the table).

    BTW - someone shared with me the clever insight that shield bash is also a hit only ability because you only ever use it when a target is casting (ie when they can't parry/dodge).

  6. #6
    In my opinion, for DK's it's easily hit. One of our main sources of aggro generation is rune strike which can't be dodged or parried, but it can miss.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Man View Post
    I agree with Satrina. I know Vene takes the opposite view in his blog.
    I'm guilty of going over the top at times in order to prove a point and motivate discussion. I'll flat out admit that I hadn't considered the impact of hit on Shockwave when I wrote it and had I, it likely would have ended up being a bit less "there is only 1 way", but still would have came to the same conclusion of "Expertise is better" since ultimately, I try to preach a more Balanced approach to gearing yourself as a tank. (ie. Expertise = Survivability + Threat, Hit = Threat)

    We're in a tricky time to really recommend how to tank as both the Survivability and Threat aspects are fairly trivial. On one had we can compensate for the DPS by contributing more DPS while on the other we can compensate for the Healers by upping our Survivability. Either way, it's really hard to go completely wrong just yet as the content simply isn't that challenging as a whole yet.

  8. #8
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    I just want to say that the goal of this wasn't to say either way that one is better than the other. I only wanted to express that there is advantages to both and so that someone who reads something like Vene's blog doesn't take it to mean that any tank who stacks Hit over Expertise is wrong or bad. We have to watch what we say because the larger WoW community as a whole has a tendency to read far too much into some statements.
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  9. #9
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    Agreed, I didn't mean to call you out there Vene. Just thought I'd add some weight to the 'keep with expertise' camp by name dropping you there =p.

    It's funny, I actually prefer stacking hit after the exp softcap as a way to balance my stats. It's also happened more or less naturally with gear upgrades. We'll see what Ulduar brings and if hit or expertise will be the prefered stats after the softcap or if it's still going to be a matter of preference.

  10. #10
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    One of the biggest issues I have with stacking +hit, is to be over the cap. One day you have a draenei, and the other day you don't for example.

    Expertise isn't affected by any buffs or debuffs, and so you can safely stack it till the cap, so you don't have to switch gear depending on who's in the raid or party.

  11. #11
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    I actually trying to lose some hit on my gear because when I don't wear my grim toll(hit trinket) I'm under cap, but when i do, I'm 1% over cap.

    That said, as easy as wrath content is, I've been trying to get both expertise and hit capped at the same time for bosses(hard expertise cap). I have a long way to go but the trinket/legs from malygos and the ring from sarth10 are the major sources I'm missing

    P.S. Blizzard has a hard-on for putting parry on any item with expertise, slightly ironic?

  12. #12
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    Its kinda like splitting hairs here. Cake or Pie? Both are great but are you really hurting if you get a piece of cake instead of pie?

    Both +Hit and +Exp provide solid threat/DPS benefits and I think its more important to factor in the overall quality of an item before worrying too much whether you should stack hit or exp.

    In other words, don't sweat it. You're not 'wrong' for choosing one or the other.

    Personally, I'm going for +hit after dodge cap for all the reasons listed above. If, for example, the legs off of Malygos fell to me and took me from 26 EXP to 30something, I don't think I'd totally rework my gear to make it fit. (oh who am I kidding, I'm a freak like that...of course I would especially because I am wearing pants with alot of hit and it would be a nasty drop to switch)

    Twilight Opals are relatively cheap and I have the 8EXP/12Stam cut. I had been using 8 hit/12 stam in yellow sockets but at 31.4K hp, I'm solid on EH so +16 hit for further sockets.

    What this really comes down to are instances where you have an open yellow socket and if you're gear like I am, you have to choose, assuming you don't want more Def, hit/stam or straight hit or hit/exp. At dodge cap, I'd prolly go straight hit. but any of those choices are good choices....like having to decide between cake and pie :P
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  13. #13
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    Yeah I've read both the guide here and Vene's blog and both take too hard a stance in the expertise camp. I wish both had a footnote that explained that after the softcap expertise will continue to reduce the chances of a parry gib while offering approx the same DPS/Threat increases as hit. However, hit affects your chance to land Shockwave, Thunder Clap, Heroic Throw, Taunt, Demo Shout, and Shield Bash and can add to your over all utility. Making sure those attacks land when you want them to is pretty important and each tank needs to make the decision which is more important to them.

  14. #14
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    An even 50/50ish mix is probably the best bet. Though of course ideally you'd want both to be hard capped. Doing this without compromising your avoidance and stamina ma be tricky with current gears, however.

  15. #15
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    As a warrior I find it hard to NOT be hit and expertise(dodge) capped. Granted I have access to Naxx 25 gear. But its not like Naxx 25 is Sunwell either.

    At one point I seriously had 350 hit rating from equips.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  16. #16
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    Bodasafa: you're currently under the expertise soft cap ;-). The cost of losing a racial perhaps?

    It is interesting that you got the hit cap with just gear, no dps trinkets/rings either (the weapon chain is just excessive btw =p).

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