15/5/51 versus 12/8/51

[Wuffle]

Hello everyone.

Although I have been reading this site for a while now this is my first post on tankspot. Thank you for providing this forum and community.

Now on to my post:

It seems like every warrior tank in the world is ussing 15/5/51 The World of Warcraft Armory

but I can't see why. I usualy spec 12/8/51 WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator

I finnaly gave in and speced 15/5/51 to see what the hype is all about.

After using the spec for a while I did notice a positive change in multimob TPS, but as far as boss TPS I noticed lower amounts then normal.

Considering that I want a Raid Boss spec, and we have a very good DK and paladin that tank trash, and the fact that I use a Last laugh would anyone still suggest I stay 15/5/51 or go back to 12/8/51?

Basically the trade off is:
3% crit and 3% shield block
versus
DW and ImpTC

Maybe I am ignorant to something you all know please inform me.
Suggestions are appreciated.

Also considering the spec which Glyph would be superior - Heroic strike or devestate? - I already use revenge and blocking.

Thank you.

[Cheskagarcia]

raid stacking
recount research
wws research

BUT most important thing to consider is HIT/EXPERTISE capping. doesn't matter if you're specced either way if you aren't hitting the boss well enough. it's nice to wear 5/5 valorous for looks and in dalaran, but 95% of the time i'd be running with 2 set just for the set bonus and use side-pieces to fill-out stats that i want.

in terms of 12/8/51 in particular though, i'd probably go 12/5/51+ or 8/5/51+ ish on say new progression content where i might need maximum mitigation stats and possibly a better shield wall CD.

[Satrina]

Well, deep wounds tends to account for about 7-10% of my damage out on a boss - it's mathematically impossible for 3% crit from cruelty to match that. If you have another warrior spec'd into improved thunderclap that is guaranteed to be there or someone else spec'd into an equivalent melee slow that is guaranteed to be there, then you don't need improved thunderclap yourself for slowing the boss. However, you're depriving yourself of extra threat by not taking it - and not just in an AoE situation. Talented thunderclap can outperform devastate for threat.

You aren't expertise or hit capped in your gear, and are very far from expertise capping at that - the variance in performance between specs can probably be attributed to that to a large extent.

Right now, there's no need at all for a maximum mitigation spec. We'll see what happens with Ulduar. Spec what makes sense to you.

[Wuffle]

Using recount and having the bleed effect on the bosses the whole fight in Naxx I was averaging less the 4% of my total damage from DW. Both Thunderclap and shockwave had higher damage amounts. On trash ofcourse I did do a considerable amount.

You say that you are expertise capped which means you are blocked and parried less often then me, then how is it possible that you get more bleed damage from your DW then i do? (percent wise)

Since we use the same wepon you should technically do less dw damage over time then me because you land more hits. unless I am understanding how DW works incorrectly - but I was pretty sure it was base entirely on wepon avg damage. Perhaps using Broken Promise would yield better results.

[Argamasilla]

Maybe you are confusing deep wounds with Rend?

[Satrina]

You say that you are expertise capped which means you are blocked and parried less often then me, then how is it possible that you get more bleed damage from your DW then i do? (percent wise)

The more you crit, the more damage deep wounds does. Don't forget that DW stacks.

[Wuffle]

I see perhaps that is what I am missing, i did not realize that DW stacked. I thought it just reset the bleed timer.

and BTW no i did not mean Rend.


If that is the case then you do have a point that my low hit/exp rating is stopping me from doing as much damage as possible hence not get as much threat or damage as I could be getting out of a DW spec.

My damage currently with 12/8/51 on raid bosses is about 1600-1700 - with majority comming from Shield slam and shield block (30% block)- so that may be why i do a little better with the crit and shiled block then i do with the DW. I will work on some hit/exp gear and see how things change. Also:

any word on which glyph does better in raids - Heroic or Dev? ofcourse I am already using rev/blocking - just wondering about that third glyph - Heroic seems good but if your crit is low it seems like it wont be as usefull as devstate imo - suggestions?

[Satrina]

To be clear, the amount of hit and expertise you have is not affecting the number of crits you get. Your crit rate is your crit rate and that's that - but making sure your raid buffs maximise your crit chance helps a lot. Hit and expertise will increase your straight up DPS out because you're hitting more often. Things like SnB procs, and Concussion Blow not triggering the GCD (for now at least) are giving you more chances to crit because you're making more attacks. In that respect, it's critical that you capitalise on SnB and use CB when it's cooled down.

As for Heroic vs. Devastate glyphs, there was a discussion on that a while ago: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...-check-me.html

[Gysh]

I like the 15/5/51 for Heroics and OT in Naxx. I can hold threat easily on all mobs against 3 DPS doing almost 3k. If I was MT and just starting Naxx I would go max mitigation but I dont think any boss really requires it.