Maybe, but following instructions are 10x more important than gear. Half the reason people want you to have good gear is because the truly bad players have no access to gear. I think what the PUG's are concerned about is that he might be a terribad player.
Originally Posted by Kelstet
Unlike Vanilla 40 mans, it's much more difficult to AFK your way to Raid loot.
I think you and Pet are looking at two different armories.
Originally Posted by Warwench
Pet -> OP
War -> Doomwarder
Petninja made an excellent point. We can all look at your gear and tell you it's fine. We can all post about elitist pricks and pugs.... but that doesn't get you into any groups. Put the work into making yourself better than ready, then you can really tear the place up ;-).
Also start with OS, it's really easy to pug (a group brought me along as OT when I was still crittable cuz the MT said it was fine). 10 and 25 man are both easy, and have some good drops.
Last edited by Muffin Man; 01-30-2009 at 02:48 PM.
Reason: Added quote: because I post slow
I picked up a pug tank this week for Naxx. We erred on the side of letting a friend come, and it was horrible. I'm sorry, but no, you wouldn't get in my pug.
If I'm going to pug, I'm going to get someone who has put the time in to get good gear. I'm sorry if I come across as thick for this, but I did it, so can you. I'm also not going to pug a hunter in greens.
This forum, much like a pug is limited to the information put in front of us. All we see are numbers, we don't know that maybe a player is truly awesome at their class, we don't know if they completely suck and the numbers in front of us are a clear and accurate portrayal of that. All we know is cold hard numbers, these are the things that we base our 'critiques' if you will upon. Laziness in not gem'ing, enchanting, belt buckling, obtaining crafted items is indicative of a person that does not put forth the effort of caring, is this a person you want to make a snap decision to bring to a raid? We're held to a high standard, as we should be, because if we suck we cost everyone money, both real and fictional. My advice, work on the gear, work on the heroics, work on getting known and getting better. Get some quests knocked out so you got some money sitting about.
Originally Posted by Angry Grimace
Remember people judge you based upon what they see, it's based on that information that they make a decision to include you or to let you sit on the bench. Some pugs go as far as using a site like Be imba to make that judgment call as well. Please don't think I am trying to be critical, I'm just trying to help the OP understand the length and depth people will go to in order to make sure they can progress through something the safest and with minimal time/money investment.
Not all the people in the world are as willing to chance the unknown when it comes to something they invest their time into.
It swings both ways, really. Some groups will give you the benefit of the doubt, some won't.
I've been told I'm undergeared for heroics by groups when I've completed those very heroics several times. Just depends on how knowledgeable the raid leader is. If they think heroics require 27K health (and I've been told this by groups, and laughed in their faces) then I generally don't want to tank for them anyway. On the other end of the spectrum, I've been invited to tank in Naxx at 24K unbuffed/uncrit/~42% avoid/miss/20% block, and did fine for the part we did, which did not include KT/Saph. (I've geared up some since then, but that's what it was then.)
However, I do have the enchants, you can look at my gems and see that I gem for balance, not just stack stam, and I have all the good crafted gear, along with the Naxx-25 block boots that I found for 900g on the AH. My biggest deficiencies at the moment are in trinkets. I'm still running HoL for the trinket, and Gossamer hasn't come, either. If you *don't* have the enchants/gems, then someone armorying you will probably wonder about your motivation. That probably carries more weight than the gear for many people. Gear drops are somewhat not in your control. Enchants, gems and crafted gear *are*. Heroic badge gear is just a function of time spent in heroics and falls in the middle.
Stupidity story: I had a group invite me to tank a heroic. First trash pull (3 mobs), the priest didn't start healing me till 20%. We wipe. Guess what the healer said the problem was? "Your gear isn't good enough." I pulled out my addon and showed that he didn't cast a heal till 20%, showed my achievement completing the heroic before, told him to own up to his mistakes, and left the group.
Last edited by mavfin; 01-30-2009 at 06:20 PM.
A Job Interview
I've interviewed a few dozen people for IT jobs before, it would blow your mind what some people think they can get away with while asking you to fund their hobbies(and addictions...ironically).
In the age of transparency of spec, gear, and ultimately achievements in WoW; your character is your resume. You gear is the suit you wear to the interview.
Ultimately your gear sends a message; you showed up with mismatched socks, a mustard stain on your tie and you clearly haven't showered.
When you finished the interview, you blamed the interviewer for setting the bar too high...or picking his friends, or whatever.
Long way of making a simple point I admit, but it is a buyers market in pugs. There are too many tanking capable classes out there for anyone to be forced to settle for halfassed and unprepared. I'm not saying you are either of those things....but the suit you wore to the interview put the first strike against you before I cared to find out any more.
Bad healers really ruin my day. I had a holy pally try the same thing on me. We didn't even need an addon to see that he was full of it. In fact when I died, the dps were the first ones asking the pally what was wrong.
Originally Posted by mavfin
Extra stupidity points for trying to pull the 'tank undergeared' card on the 3rd boss of Occulus (the summons, not even the boss).
Bare minimum gear + strangers = bad.
You can either overgear for pugs or do guild runs in your current gear.
I could not have said it better myself...nuf said.
Originally Posted by Saent
(and I'm saying this to the OP with the utmost of respect.)
sadly, WotLK has become so easy to raid as a pug in current content, that everyone and thier granny thinks that they are "entitaled" to be pulled into it as well.
if you think that the requirements to pug raid are hard or too expencive now, then you have no idea what it was like back in early vanillia.
to put it in todays turms of money, you would need to spend about 1K gold a night just on consumables...today, I've never had to even use an elixor, nevermind a flask. haven't even eatten food unless it's a feast.
I come prepaired anyway just incase, but...
back then, if you didn't go through 10 fire pots a night, you were happy as shlt.
...and pugging back then? HAHA!!!!
you needed a "rep" back then if you even was thinking of some day raiding.
it wasn't, "what are you're stats?", it was, "oooh, you were that hunter who saved our guild barron raid earlyer today from wiping and beat out the rogue and mage in our guild in DPS as well...please come join our raid, we are one short and you even have trank shot."
I could keep you up solo on my priest easy, in fact I prefer healing under geared tanks and I've attempted to let the group I run with to let a fury warrior take hatefuls on patches, because that is the only way to make healing 10 man nax remotely challenging.
It's the standard pug mentality though, the same crap happened in BC, if you weren't in full t5/t6 with badge gear, good luck on getting the nod for a kara/za pug.
I'd have no problems with you mting in my pug, but then again I'm not a terribad healer and the dps I run with doesn't suck. Most people who run pugs just want to be carried though so if you want consistent invites you'll either have to join a guild that will let you mt naxx, or you'll have to go with the flow.
if i were you i would not go for the 15/5/51 spec.
id go more for this WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator
the 15/5/51 spec requires a bit more gear.
other then that, if people have an issue with your health, enchant more of your gear. it may cost you, but if it gets you better gear its worth it.
I have been rejected to tons of PUG raids, 24k hp, 25k armor 556 defense, 19%dodge 16% parry and 47%block depending on gear. all these stats are unbuffed obviously. I havent even stepped foot into naxx yet. I have ot'ed OS and VOA 10 and 25 but the mt always reserves the gear so I get nothing. So I have to roll with emblem gear/ heroic gear
There shoudl be more than enough pugs for OS / VoA that you can find one where the MT isn't a loot whore. Also, starting a VoA/10 pug isn't hard, and reserving shoudln't even be an issue since there are 10 classes. But I guess you can get unlucky or suffer on a smaller pop server. But if you've got the experience, you can easily start your own pug for those. MT-ing those encounters isn't much harder than OT-ing them.
on a brighter note on the last 25man VOA I did get the healer pvp gloves for my offset to replaced my t4 holy gloves
PVP healer gear is awesome for Prot pally's who do not respec, Due to the stam to spell power talent, pvp gear has lots of stam. Unbuffed and non respecc'ed (still in prot) while in holy gear I have 1625 spell power and 16k mana. Sure it isn't the ideal healer but it is fun to play around in reg 80 and lower instances to help guildies if they dont have a healer or to pvp in.
It is fun to group up with a bear druid with 40+ hp raid buffed in WG and just heal him through an entire army of alliance.
Last edited by doomwarder; 01-31-2009 at 04:50 PM.
Im simarly geard to the OP. Crypt feinds not going down untill Anoob was well and truly around the room. PuG DPS blames me and the healer, even though 3 dps were below me damage wise (Terribad considering kiting time etc). Point is Healer/tank nearly always get blamed by DPS for thier phailures
I wont step foot in Naxx wiht my guild untill my DPS gets there asses hit capped, meanwhile the DPS contunues to get their hitless PvP epics...."Dont you have 27k unbuffed yet??"
Get a different guild.
Originally Posted by Walynds
Also, tank+heals=the group. Dps can stfu and do what we tell them, or they'll be kicked and replaced with someone who will.
A lot of PuG leader assume that's HP = Skill, specially non-tank players.