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Thread: Basics for Tank and DPS info from a Main Tank

  1. #1
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    Basics for Tank and DPS info from a Main Tank

    For starters i am new to this site, but hoping to improve the amount of information i can provide my guild as the main tank, raid leader, and warrior class leader, and this post is pretty much a copy and past job from the information that i have currently provided in a post to my guild and i am seeking to improve upon my data (note i have done a majority of this w/ next to nothing research, and with pretty much i have been running very few mods because i have been too lazy and busy to find the good ones but stepping up my game) seeing how i have been a warrior main for about four years new and most of my play style have been completely my own so i figure its time i start trying to put in my 2cents and try to help improve tanks out there / build upon my ability


    <I am Currently Updating And Reposing Thread To Include Mods And Cleaning up the Page>

    Skywall <RollforBlame> Warrior Specs, Mods, and Glyphs
    Tanking Spec:
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=050030000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000005335102520321002133001330 0
    There are 15 remaining Talent Points to be used for Extra Tanking Damage, Rage Builders, and Multi-Mob Talents


    Tanking Glyphs:
    Main Tanking Glyphs:
    [Glyph of Revenge] After using The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You., your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.
    [Glyph of Devastate] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. now applies two stacks of Sunder Armor.
    [Glyph of Blocking] Increases your block value by 10% for 10 sec after using Shield Slam.
    Devastate is the MUST HAVE Tanking Glyph

    (for those who disagree i am quoting muffin man to prove that they glyph is useful over having people stop reading the post atfer seeing that

    Muffin Man
    Established Registrant
    WoW Characters

    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Posts: 329


    Glyph of Devastate (double check me) and WoW 3.0 Threat Values

    Devastate works a bit differently from TBC. It no longers gives you the threat from the sunder application. Rather you get bonus threat based on 5% of your AP + threat from whatever damage you did. When you use the glyph of devastate you double the bonus threat to 10% of your ap. So glyph on devastate increases the threat of *every* devastate even after 5 sunder armor stacks are up. Whether you think the bonus threat + faster applications is worth a glyph slot is up to you.

    Although, as Cheskagarcia mentioned there is value in applying the debuff faster, namely those first few moves you make do more damage. So it's helpful for frontloading aggro. Don't underestimate how much more damage (threat) devastate does for 2 sunders versus 1 on the target and especially 4 sunders versus 2.

    Multi-Mob Tanking Glyphs:

    [Glyph of Sunder Armor] Your Sunder Armor ability affects a second nearby target.
    [Glyph of Cleaving] Reduces the rage cost of The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. by 5.



    Fury DPS Spec:
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=302023002330000000000000000000305 05000552031205010050135100000000000000000000000000 0
    There is 1 Remaining Talent Point to place into more DPS or Support Talents


    Experimental One-Hander/Off-Tank Spec:
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=000000000000000000000000000000005 05000552021005000000000025331102400321052033001000 0
    I haven’t tested yet, but Relies on Hasted and Instant Attacks for 1k-2ks as well as Slower or Faster one-handers but would be High Threat



    Fury Warrior/Experimental Spec Glyphs:
    [Glyph of Heroic Strike] You gain 10 rage when you critically hit with Heroic Strike
    [Glyph of Whirlwind] Increases the number of targets your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. hits by 1.
    [Glyph of Execution] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability deals damage as if you had 10 additional rage.
    [Glyph of Rending] Increases the duration of your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability by 3 sec.

    Arms DPS Spec:
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=302023212333010500201203231251305 05000402000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0
    This Spec Raises Melee And Bleed DPSes and is more focused towards Multi-Mob Damage


    Arms Warrior Glyphs:
    Raiding:
    [Glyph of Sweeping Strikes] You generate 30 rage over 12 sec when you use your Sweeping Strikes ability.
    [Glyph of Heroic Strike] You gain 10 rage when you critically hit with Heroic Strike
    [Glyph of Mortal Strike] Increased the damage of your Mortal Strike ability by 10%, but the healing penalty is reduced by half.
    [Glyph of Whirlwind] Increases the number of targets your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. hits by 1.
    [Glyph of Execution] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability deals damage as if you had 10 additional rage.
    [Glyph of Overpower] Adds a 50% chance to enable The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. when your attacks are parried.
    [Glyph of Rending] Increases the duration of your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability by 3 sec.


    PvPing:
    [Glyph of Overpower] Adds a 50% chance to enable The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. when your attacks are parried.
    [Glyph of Hamstring] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability has a 10% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.
    [Glyph of Victory Rush] Your Victory Rush has a 30% increased critical strike chance against targets with more than 90% health.
    [Glyph of Rending] Increases the duration of your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability by 3 sec.


    NEW:Move PvP information, Better Then What I Can Provide:
    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f40/3...pvp-guide.html



    Useless/Soloing Glyphs:
    [Glyph of Intervene] Increases the number of attacks you intercept for your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. target by 1.
    [Glyph of Bloodthirst] Increases the healing done by your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability by 20%.
    [Glyph of Taunt] Increases the chance for your Taunt to succeed by 8%.
    [Glyph of Barbaric Insults] Your Mocking Blow also Taunts the target.
    [Glyph of Resonating Power] Reduces the rage cost of your Thunder Clap ability by 5.


    Clic's Tanking Spec (Old Spec Multi-Mob Tanking):
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=05023001200000000000000000000000400000000000000000 0000000053351225203210021330113321


    And Clic's Tanking Glyphs (Old Glyphs/Multi-Mob):
    [Glyph of Revenge] After using The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You., your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.
    [Glyph of Devastate] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. now applies two stacks of Sunder Armor.
    [Glyph of Sunder Armor] Your Sunder Armor ability affects a second nearby target.


    NEW:The Best Prot Spec For Geared/Experienced Warriors:

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=05023000200000000000000000000030000000000000000000 0000000053351225000100520330113321

    This spec is meant to be the Top End Prot Spec, you can get over 1.7k dps and generate over 5ktps without vigilance, hell even with someone putting vigilance onto you, although this is a gear demanding spec, it makes vigilance completely obsolete, i know there are a few free points, 5 in total, that i left open, it is for personalization with the required points where they need to be


    NEW:
    Clic's Strongest Single Target Tanking Spec:

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=05023000200000000000000000000030200000000000000000 0000000053351225000200520330113321
    NEW:Clic's Glyphs:

    [Glyph of Revenge] After using The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You., your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.
    [Glyph of Devastate] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. now applies two stacks of Sunder Armor.
    [Glyph of Blocking] Increases your block value by 10% for 10 sec after using Shield Slam.

    The extra 2 points i am still trying to decide what is the best spot to put them into

    And as for rage generation, Berserker Rage is the way to go to keep you going


    This Spec Is A Modification of What Can Be Found On http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...ior-guide.html Which Contains Great Detail On Every Talent Involving Tanking, and To Be Honest I Made This Spec After One Look Over Of This Site And Tested It



    NEW:Watty's Fury Spec:


    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=35000200233000000000000000000030505010151031205312 0501351000000000000000000000000000


    NEW:Watty's Glyphs:

    [Glyph of Heroic Strike] You gain 10 rage when you critically hit with Heroic Strike [Glyph of Whirlwind] Increases the number of targets your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. hits by 1.
    [Glyph of Execution] Your The New Tailor Made Servers: Dedicated Servers Done Right. For You. ability deals damage as if you had 10 additional rage.

    NEW:Mods To Help With Tanking And DPS:
    (Currently Being Editied Expect to be finished within 2 weeks)
    To be honest i am trying to figure out what skill announcer cinderhelm uses and if it applies to dps as well as tanking like one i have spoted just not sure about testing yet
    And i am also testing if MTLove (my old must have mod for aggro watching on multi mob fights PreBC and BC) has any use now


    Watty and Torq feel free to correct me on dps specs and throw in additional information needed for dps specs
    <I am Currently Updating And Reposing Thread To Include Mods And Cleaning up the Page>


    Also posting my armory for anyone who is curious (i know i am a bit undergeared but i make do with what i have)



    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Skywall&n=Clic


    As well as Watty's armory to show what i can hold aggro off of even with vigilance put onto me as i am tanking bosses



    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Skywall&n=Watty
    Last edited by Clic; 02-02-2009 at 01:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    i know its a bit messy but had a few errors with the coloration's and formats between both sites lol, also again i am a noob to this site so not really sure if i am doing this right just trying to do my part lol
    Last edited by Clic; 01-29-2009 at 11:07 PM.

  3. #3
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    From a TPS/DPS standpoint I think that Glyph of Blocking is the must have tanking glyph. Personally, I'd take Glyph of Heroic Strike over Glyph of Devastate. I'll try to add some math later.

    In regards to your "standard" tank talent template. There appear to be a lot of key talents that are missing (Warbringer, Shockwave, One handed weapon specialization, Improved Revenge et. al.) as well as a lot of talents that are situational and should only be used when speccing for a specific encounter (Improved spell reflect, Iron Will?? etc.)
    Last edited by Lodron; 01-30-2009 at 12:16 AM.

  4. #4
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    like i said on the post that was my old multi-mob tanking spec, it was more an off-tank spec over a main tank spec, roughly had 3.5k tps on the main mob and 1.5-2k on the closest mob to it, and about 1kdps
    Last edited by Clic; 01-30-2009 at 05:46 AM.

  5. #5
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    and the standard tank talent template is just the basics of what u need to be able to take some damage and hold aggro, and there is an overwhelming trend of people specing way too heavily into prot tree on my server, and i am trying to stop that at least in my guild, like i said i can dish out a good 5ktps with vigi on me and dps 1.7k dps on bosses like patchwerk w/o heroism, so i provide them my specs vs a template because everyone has thier own stills
    Last edited by Clic; 01-30-2009 at 05:46 AM.

  6. #6
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    so any other suggestions or anyone want to try and recommend some mods that actually are useful to tanking and/or dps? lol really hoping to get more imput, but ya again that standard build is just a hey if u have this u can tank, i didn't say anything about tanking well, just you can tank, and the 15 extra points are to be distributed to play styles (just saying that because even w/o 1hand specilization i could do the same tps and dps as other tanks with it)

  7. #7
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    Heres the thread about Ciderhelm's UI.

    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f120/...formation.html


    I believe you are looking for the MikScrollingBattleText addon.



    For tracking DPS I use Recount. It shows the dmg done and the dps as well as the abilities used and their dmg recorded.


    ~Wuk~
    A fight is not won by one punch or kick. Either learn to endure, or hire a bodyguard.
    -Bruce Lee

  8. #8
    i don't think devastate is that great a glyph because it doesn't apply the 2nd sunder's threat value (must less the first one either because devastate itself has a threat modifier with sunder and damage). although it's a great dps glyph (for your raid physical dpsers that is) meaning they get 5 sunders in less then 4-5 seconds of the boss pull instead of 7-8 seconds, after which i believe it is redundant.

    instead i use glyph of heroic strike for purposes of free rage especially when you are over-dodging or against caster bosses that barely hit you when you need rage.

    also most of your spec links don't work so i can't look into them (^_^)y

  9. #9
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    i had to reread this twice to work out if it was a guide or spam telling my how to increase my penis size.

  10. #10
    also just looked into your current gear and spec.

    really good avoidance tanking stats with maximum hit! v(^_^)

    you can probably put a dps enchant on your tanking weapon or next one because you are over the hit cap (265ish (8%)). also you could use elixir of expertise / expertise food if you want to make the soft expertise cap (24+ish?) also you losing 10% dps from shield slam without gag-order, also conc blow can be put into a tanking rotation. also if you are spamming heroic strikes at infinite rage eventually you are going to want improved heroic strikes so you don't go raged starved as you start dodging more.

  11. #11
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    Devastate is the MUST HAVE Tanking Glyph
    Sorry, I stopped reading there.
    || Tierax || ADELANTE-GUILD.COM - US ARTHAS (PVP) ||
    Healing Officer / Holy Paladin / Retired Protection Warrior

  12. #12
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    well if u need glyph of heroic go for it, i have 0 threat/rage issues with out it unless i start off fights avoiding all damage for an extended period of time and i just keep spamming my abilities, the devastate glyph is best for initial aggro allowing you to quickly build threat at the start of fights, and reason why i am using the weapon chain is because its cheap lol, and my hit just has been climbing insanely fast with my upgrades that i get, i mean really the only glyph that may be worth it to replace the devastate with be the sunder glyph for multi mob tanking, just personally i like my dps to be able to open up from the start of fights w/o me having to use tank, which is very important on fights like grobbulus (which i solo tank) and patchwerk, and it is even more important for a warrior off-tank to keep up on threat on untauntable mobs

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clic View Post
    well if u need glyph of heroic go for it, i have 0 threat/rage issues with out it unless i start off fights avoiding all damage for an extended period of time and i just keep spamming my abilities, the devastate glyph is best for initial aggro allowing you to quickly build threat at the start of fights, and reason why i am using the weapon chain is because its cheap lol, and my hit just has been climbing insanely fast with my upgrades that i get, i mean really the only glyph that may be worth it to replace the devastate with be the sunder glyph for multi mob tanking, just personally i like my dps to be able to open up from the start of fights w/o me having to use tank, which is very important on fights like grobbulus (which i solo tank) and patchwerk, and it is even more important for a warrior off-tank to keep up on threat on untauntable mobs
    What are you talking about? Did you not see the above post where it was explained that the gylph does not apply the threat from the additional sunder armor? Basically, it allows you to get to 5 debuffs very quickly, but that is a marginal (4-8 second) benefit. Certainly not worth forgoing the other glyphs.
    Last edited by Gadholm; 01-31-2009 at 03:07 PM.

  14. #14
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    ok look at it this way would u rather be at full threat with your devastes in 3 casts (allowing you access to the higher/full threat build that much quicker) or do 5 and have to wait on global CDs, i see his point just ya glyph of revenge makes heroic strike free, and there is no real rage issues like there use to be in previous xpacs, i was agreeing and disagreeing with Cheskagarcia because i already have pretty much endless rage already, and that there are not any real rage issues, so devastate, sunder, or even possibly cleave may be better because they all give u additional tps, either in the first 2-3 seconds on the fight to later on, but then again i don't use the taunt key unless its to aggro bouce with the off-tank so that is why i see it as critical to my tanking style and the other as pretty useless to me, really i could use any other glyph if i wanted to from tweaking my play style but i mean hell i tend to tab out a lot durring fights that because my play style works greatly, as well as one of our dps warriors for example, watty to be precise, respecs prot from time to time and i had him get the devastate glyph and he did see a huge spike in his ability to hold aggro easier and ya for my guild i am saying a must have to raise their tps as much as i can seeing how a majority of the people have poor specs / glyphed completely wrong, and i have been just using the combo that has been working the best for me personally

    also my play style is horribly, if the fight isn't an active fight i tend to tab out because of the lack of effort i have to put into tanking after a certain point, i just have to keep timers and my health visible
    Last edited by Clic; 01-31-2009 at 11:14 PM.

  15. #15
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    http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...-check-me.html and http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f200/...at-values.html

    Devastate works a bit differently from TBC. It no longers gives you the threat from the sunder application. Rather you get bonus threat based on 5% of your AP + threat from whatever damage you did. When you use the glyph of devastate you double the bonus threat to 10% of your ap. So glyph on devastate increases the threat of *every* devastate even after 5 sunder armor stacks are up. Whether you think the bonus threat + faster applications is worth a glyph slot is up to you.

    Although, as Cheskagarcia mentioned there is value in applying the debuff faster, namely those first few moves you make do more damage. So it's helpful for frontloading aggro. Don't underestimate how much more damage (threat) devastate does for 2 sunders versus 1 on the target and especially 4 sunders versus 2.

  16. #16
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    ty muffin man for mentioning that

  17. #17
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    Clic. I'ma say this in the nicest way possible. You need some help, and quickly. Keep researching this site, bout 75% of what you say in this post, although logical, is not practical. Keep reading bud.

    The effort made for this post is great, but I would make sure the information is correct before stating that it is ^_^
    November 23, 2004 8:27:03 AM - Glomgore 10+ Years of tanking? Priceless

  18. #18
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    ya well like i've said this is more or less my first guide more or less, i am not a main dpser so i usually turn to watty for that stuff, and i'm not a big pvper, and for the tanking stuff i usually just go by experience, one of the big things is i try to encourage people to keep thier own style just ya they can imporve, and the information is a bit bias because i go with what works / doesn't work for me, and what i see the best resaults with, i mean ya i didn't use a few of the glyphs to up my tanking because i was build for multi mob tanking, and on average i pushing heroic groups through instances only allowing 1-2 mana breaks because that is all that is needed and not worring about people pulling aggro from me when they were not assisting me, but ya i do know the warrior class, specially the tanking aspect seeing how long i have been around, and i realize i could probably make a much better guide, a matter of fact the first draft of this was a lot more detailed just the web site timed me out and i lost all the information so i cut out about 1/2 of my data that i provided and just stuck to the basics

    and one of the biggest things is i am tired of having to hold everyone's hands and pretty much would rather give them the information that is useful for tanking and kick them off a cliff for them to learn on their own like i have because i would incorporate my skill rotation and a lot more into this if i was more of a hardcore or uptight player over a more causal / laid back player
    Last edited by Clic; 01-31-2009 at 11:38 PM.

  19. #19
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    but ya the original copy of this i wrote without sleep and had about a paragraph of information under a majority of the glyphs as to why they are useful and same with the specs , so a lot of information went from a paragraph to a sentence because i wanted to sleep

  20. #20
    and one of the biggest things is i am tired of having to hold everyone's hands and pretty much would rather give them the information that is useful for tanking and kick them off a cliff for them to learn on their own like i have because i would incorporate my skill rotation and a lot more into this if i was more of a hardcore or uptight player over a more causal / laid back player
    i've been playing wow for 3 years now, less then some, more then most. not that it matters how you choose to play the game or what definitions of being 'good' means but there is a certain niche of players that progress to a definitive norm because of mathematical certainty / awareness.

    1st year = learned on my own my own style = noob guilds, lower tier progression
    2nd year = learned from my friends/websites = moderately good progression, thought myself as 'decent'
    3rd year = learned from doing math and numbers based off research when itemizing / raid stacking blah blah to be competitive on meters = a lot better definitely then when i first started playing wow (that's if you consider becoming good a pve an important aspect of being good at wow)

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