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Thread: Naxxramas The Immortal

  1. #1
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    Naxxramas The Immortal



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    How RNG reliant is this?
    Virtually none of this achievement is based on the RNG for a guild that is actively attempting to complete the achievement. This achievement is exponentially more difficult than "Undying," but, with the sole exception of Thaddius, every possible problem can be accounted for by creating redundancies -- including player disconnects. In other words, any player that tell you that this is "based on the RNG" or that it's "easy, the only thing stopping guilds is lag," will likely never get the achievement unless they're carried (or they're making excuses for having bad players in their raids).

    Basically, Immortal is to your Healers what 6 Minute Malygos is to your DPS. The largest burden of this achievement rests on healers. However, you also are very unlikely to get this unless your entire raid can be relied on to live.

    Once again, to clarify: This is not an RNG dependent achievement. Bad luck will not ruin this for you -- player error or lack of planning will. Keep in mind that only a very short list of guilds have actually completed this, none of them accidentally, and the great majority of these are accomplished guilds with worldwide standing.

    (As a side note, anyone who's said that top guilds are only where they are because of time, not skill, this is your chance to prove it!)


    Guardian Spirit & Divine Shield w/ Divine Guardian Talents
    By far the two most important abilities in a successful Immortal clear are Guardian Spirit (Priests) and Divine Shield w/ Divine Guardian talents. The first is your safeguard against disconnects, and Priests who are on their game can singlehandedly prevent an Immortal failure. The second is a raid-wide Shield Wall, which will virtually guarantee your players cannot be killed during Kel'thuzad Mind Controls. Have these in your raid.


    Skilled & Experienced Players
    This achievement requires the most player skill of any achievement currently in the game. Unlike 6 minute Malygos or similar achievements, you don't get to wipe on this until you get it right. You only get one chance.

    For this reason, you have to be upfront with your raiders. While we were still experiencing heavy lag on our server, we began a policy which helped us refine our roster -- we would not invite players back if they died on a Naxxramas clear and we determined it was their fault. My first concern was 'this could be rough if people start dropping like flies,' but people stayed on their game. We did still have a couple players with problems and it helped to have stated this rule upfront so they understood why they were not on our Immortal run.

    We had been working on this achievement for several weeks in advance, knowing we could not do it because we literally could not compensate for Earthen Ring and Garrosh' disconnects on Thaddius and other encounters. Our preparation, however, allowed us to pick it up immediately after 3.0.8 was released and the lag cleared up.


    Kel'thuzad
    Kel'thuzad is the keystone encounter for this achievement, by far the most difficult encounter. Making it to him without any deaths, even without adjusting raid strategies, is relatively easy -- but pulling him once and not having a single death is not something you want to leave to chance. Impress the importance of this specific encounter to your raiders and why you need to adjust your strategy, because this is where mistakes will be the most likely and the most disheartening.


    Notable Strategy Changes
    There were several strategies that we changed specifically for this Immortal run, and had practiced in the weeks preceding our clear. Here's a list of what differs from our original 10-man videos:
    • Razuvious had a backup Feral Druid tank ready to taunt and gain Guardian Spirit in the case of a mind control break;
    • On Four Horsemen, we took Zeliek about twice as slowly as we needed to and made sure only a small number of players were in range to reduce potential Holy Wrath chains;
    • on Anub'rekhan, our tank used his 15 second Shield Wall from the 4-piece set bonus while kiting to add extra insurance;
    • We used Divine Shield through two of the web wraps on Maexxna;
    • We had two tanks on Noth the Plaguebringer dedicated to picking him up after the blink;
    • We used flares on Heigan to make it extraordinarily clear where each quarter began and ended;
    • We had two tanks on Grobbulus slimes and we stayed away from clouds after Grobbulus died;
    • We had a Feral Druid tank all of the Zombie Chow as they spawned on Gluth instead of kiting;
    • We had Positives and Negatives fully spread out through the room after Thaddius died to avoid a player death from charges after Thaddius himself died;
    • We had Guardian Spirit ready if anyone DC'd on Sapphiron and we used both Tranquility and Divine Shield through air phases to top people off;
    • We cycled Divine Shields through each Mind Control on Kel'thuzad and had two full rings of CC capable classes and cross-healers to cover every quadrant of the room; we also had four tanks building cross-tank aggro on enemies.
    Last edited by Aliena; 01-25-2010 at 08:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    We came so close to the undying achievement last night. We were on Kel, he was less that 15%, I was OTing the Adds and they had 6 stacks of buffs. Then all of a sudden i got hit by a Frost Blast. 3 seconds later i died. So close....

  3. #3
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    Gratz Cider. My guild has managed to get Undying on 10 man, but the closest we got to Immortal was 3 wings down and then someone died to Thaddius :/

    I've been labeling in peoples officer notes the week in which they blew our Immortal, hoping we couldn't bring them to further runs. Unfortunately, I've only kept track since attempt #7 and now we are up to attempt #12 and it's been a different person each week which would gimp our raid severly.

    The worst way we have lost it was on Thad. We had the normal tank toss on the first two mini bosses, a warlock pulled threat on one, proceeded to shatter as simultaneously the tank taunted and our holy pally used his bop target of target macro. So the boss changed targets from the lock, to the warrior who got bopped, then it killed our shadow priest who was now second on threat :/ Just funky ways each week. We're thinking the only way we get it is by claiming we want the under 21 achievement and leaving the "diers" out of the raid.

  4. #4
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    Cider, I'm wondering if this was server first for you guys? Nobody's done it on our server yet.
    Tankity spankity.

  5. #5
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    And grats, btw. Very impressive.
    Tankity spankity.

  6. #6
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    grats on the achevment but it take time and luck or the best of the best to get the imortal achevment but in 25 man raids ppl can die at any time in most casses thaddius is the killer cose of instance sever lage but hoppfully wow will get more than 1 instance sever going soon and it will help no end with but i am talking about blizzard doing somthing smart (NOT GOING TO HAPPEN) sorry getting of the point it is doable and it will be getting done by more guilds soon

  7. #7
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    Congratz! This is an amazing achievement and something to be proud of. Thanks for sharing it with the community.
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  8. #8
    grats on the achievment, but you mention that most any guild can do it. You are wrong sorry. This is near impossibly hard. Also, wouldn't having a tank on Zombie chow be more dangerous than kiting because of the debuff?
    Gertiploiss, the tank without a cause or reason.

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    Grats Cider! While "Ciderhelm the Immortal" is cool, I think "Ciderhelm the Marmot" would be more... awesome...

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  11. #11
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    When you're allready trying for Immortal i think you also have a decent gear
    to burn Gluth down with 1 Decimate, so the Debuff wouldn't stack too high,
    but we did it with a normal strategy aswell.
    At least, this is normal for us :P
    2 Mages
    2 Hunters
    1 Resto Shaman putting up Earthbind + 1 additional healer in the back
    1 Prot Warrior with Piercing Howl helping out

    I would say it is possible for everyone, the problem is that most (I dare say the word because it's easy) "casuals" don't engage encounters like this, they
    seem to not think really much about the encounters or anything while raiding.
    For example I know a tank who downed all bosses on normal heroic mode
    but his Number 1 damage ability is melee swings. He doesn't think. That would
    be my point. :P

    ps. Oh and grats Cider ^^

  12. #12
    Hey guys I'm Ciderhelm look how awesome I am! I HATE YOU CIDERHELM
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  13. #13
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    Reading some of the comments I want to emphasize:

    Guild Morale > Achievement.

    In some cases there may be repeat offenders due to hardware problems, latency etc. which should be addressed generally and not only for this achievement. You may get farther having people reconfigure their UI instead of keeping them out of raid.

    I find it dangerous to point fingers as a tank because we are built and raised to survive and are the focus of healing.

    -- North

  14. #14
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    Just to speak to North's comment...

    As a member of Eventide, I can say that these kinds of strict qualifiers that remove people from achievement runs like this one, are made with impartial objectivity. It is known much in advance that if you show a pattern of xyz you will not be invited on an achievement run like "The Immortal." It is nothing personal. We definately don't babysit raiders. If changing your UI will fix the problem concerning your repeated deaths then, by all means, we encourage you to fix the issue.

    Setting boundaries like these in order to achieve goals does not in anyway inhibit morale. In fact, we find it's quite the opposite.
    Last edited by Lilie; 01-28-2009 at 10:20 AM.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gertiploiss View Post
    grats on the achievment, but you mention that most any guild can do it. You are wrong sorry. This is near impossibly hard. Also, wouldn't having a tank on Zombie chow be more dangerous than kiting because of the debuff?
    Our kite team consists of prot warr, surv hunter, resto shammy, mage and a holy pally and we have absolutely no issues. I go in with 58% avoidance and usually end the fight with about 60 stacks. charge, intervene, intercept and wonderful for picking them up and avoiding the huge pack and shockwave is a no brainer.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gertiploiss View Post
    grats on the achievment, but you mention that most any guild can do it. You are wrong sorry. This is near impossibly hard. Also, wouldn't having a tank on Zombie chow be more dangerous than kiting because of the debuff?
    Every encounter can be done with 0 deaths very easily. I would be very surprised if there were any guilds that have been clearing 25-man Naxx for more than a month or so that haven't, at some point, killed each boss with 0 deaths. The only "hard" part is doing them all in one run.
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  18. #18
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    To clarify Gluth -- the debuff stops stacking at 99. It does deal a decent amount of damage but, with a dedicated healer, it's very stable to just tank them in the back. I'll have a video up for it when possible (for the 10-man version; I haven't had a chance to tank this on 25).

  19. #19
    Cider i can run fraps one day that I am tanking them unless you just really want to.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    To clarify Gluth -- the debuff stops stacking at 99. It does deal a decent amount of damage but, with a dedicated healer, it's very stable to just tank them in the back. I'll have a video up for it when possible (for the 10-man version; I haven't had a chance to tank this on 25).
    It's fundamentally the same on 25, just you need two tanks, one for each grate.

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