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Thread: how do you pick your MT?

  1. #21
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    Come to think of it, if someone asked me the criteria for main tank from a technical viewpoint, this is what i would look for:

    1. Initiative: main tank needs to be the kinda guy who will go out of his way to get shit done.

    2. Leadership skills: Needs to be able to communicate and lead people. Being MT is not just about taking the biggest hits, you set the pace of the entire raid.

    3. Commitment: Has to be 110%, no raid nights off.

    4. Organization skills and problem solving ability: Assuming your raid leader is not a tank, main tank needs to be able to sort out the other tanks, and fine tune encounters in regards to tanking.

    If you have someone who can fill this kind of criteria, chances are their gonna be on top of their own game so that's not even going to be an issue.
    Last edited by Foolishness; 01-27-2009 at 09:01 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokeh View Post
    Skill > Spec > Gear

    Pick the one that generates the best threat, knows when to blow his cooldowns or when to save them, when to move and when to stand the hell still.

    Gear is a non-issue for anything in naxx10 at the moment, and most of naxx25. Only malygos and sarth+2/3d will require tanks to have some decent gear. Skill, knowing to improvise, reading up on the fight and being the better tank is something you still need to distinguish yourself from the average pug.
    I can't quote you enough, though I would change it to look more like this:

    Skill//(Experience) > Spec > Gear:

    Having a knowledgeable MT and OT are key grips to any fight. You can have a MT do perfectly fine: for say, Kel'Thuzad (reference just for example), but your OT doesn't pick up the adds in the later phase of the fight, causing them to run loose throughout the raid.

    Other than that, I'd have to say your skill and experience are the main things, if a tank has been raiding with a guild for a year, he/she is going to be the MT by right of passage. The guild feels more comfortable with him/her and will likely choose you as the OT. Knowing your rotation and cooldowns plays in to this also.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolishness View Post
    3. Commitment: Has to be 110%, no nights off.
    ^ Why I gave up tanking anything other than an occasional PUG 10 man.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Frothymilk View Post
    ^ Why I gave up tanking anything other than an occasional PUG 10 man.
    110% no nights off is far from the truth.

    The best tanks are well rested using those days off to enjoy themselves. Raiding yourself to burnout does not equal MT or Good T

  5. #25
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    when i say no nights off, i mean no 'raid nights' off.

    i 'raid' 4 nights a week, therefor i have 3 nights off a week. although now we clear content in 2 days, so i have 5 nights off :P

  6. #26
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    Other people have mentioned it a bit, but.

    Your raid absolutely must trust you with their lives. The main tank has to instill confidence in the raid, and must not be the type to ever be unsure about anything. If you want people to be playing their best under your wing, you need to be the one to make that possible.

    This is usually made possible by excelling at your class and knowing what's next in terms of pulls, boss encounters, and the like.

    Other people can naturally be designated "main tank", but they may not be as successful or have the support of the raid that they would otherwise have.
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  7. #27
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    From a traditional leadership point of view, the Main Tank should be a keystone type personality. The one you know will be on time, at the instance portal, prepared and ready to go 100% of the time. Aside from that it is a little bit of a "safari guide" role in that it's really your responsibility to get the raid safely through trash and on to the next boss. Intentionally or not, you set the pace and the tone of the raid. Ideally this person will have good chemistry with your guild and raid group, and people will trust them to do the right thing and keep the raid on track. I don't really advocate Main Tank as Raid Leader because of Point of View problems (i.e. boss crotch), but it is a natural position of leadership. I've personally always been both, not always by choice.

    If you have multiple guys that want to tank and have shown enough interest to gear up, and learn the job why have 1 person be MT? Maybe trade off every other boss and let everyone get the experience. You'll have a much stronger tank crew in the end.

    To my recollection, the MT job was born out of necessity in 40 mans during a time when you had maybe 2 warriors at most in your guild that would even spec Protection without someone putting a gun to their head. It made sense to have 1 warrior who could make every raid your MT and just pass them all tank gear first. The game is not remotely like that now, so it just doesn't make sense to carry on that tradition. Having a "lead tank" or whatever you want to call it is a great idea though.
    Last edited by kolben; 01-27-2009 at 09:23 AM.

  8. #28
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    We tend to swap tanks in and out on farm content. On new content we've tended to be a bit random. Druid for Sarth++, long term officer warrior for Malygos. However recently, we kept seeing this (warrior) tank getting 1-shotted. When I tanked him as druid, there was a raid wide sigh of relief - no one shots & people could relax and do their jobs. So dont assume because someone has been around for a long time that they're the best tank. Yes, we chose him by socialconvention (I guess) even though the repeated one-shots were a time waste and tremendously bad for morale.

    I support the design criteria that all tanks can tank all content. So I was curious, and examined the WWS stats of the fight... I scanned key surivival abilities for the tank like last stand & shield wall. It was interesting to see how rarely those abilities were used by the warrior tank. And Lightwells were everywhere, but noone was using them, including the tank that kept dying.

    Learning to use WWS intelligently takes time, but I think its a great tool to identifiy your weaker players, and find ways to improve.

  9. #29
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    MT is all about Trust.

    I've forced my raid to Trust the other tanks in the guild too by making them MT fights, but the reality is at the end of the day, I'm still the Main Tank. How did I gain that trust?

    - I lead every 5 man I've ever tanked
    - I've tanked for every single guild member in a 5-man
    - My 5-mans are 99% of the time a fast, fun experience
    - I researched my class more than anyone in my guild not just tanks
    - I led most of them through Karazhan and taught the leaders of the other runs the boss strats
    - I led all of their 25-mans for all of TBC
    - I had the best gear, enchants and gems of anyone in the guild not just the tanks
    - I talk on Vent, a lot

    And there's a whole lot more to it than that...

    What your original post tells me is you lack initiative. Yes, you can go read up strats, but ultimately, if you have to be asked to do this, you're already not MT worthy. As the MT, you are the rock the rest of guild rests upon. They need to know that when they walk into a fight that of all the people that can wipe the raid, you're the least likely to do so. Basically, even if you aren't the raid leader, you need to be able to lead the raid because ultimately, you're going to end up leading them one way or another due to the situations you'll be thrown into.

  10. #30
    Ive been in 2 major guilds since the release of WoW - first time around I was chosen to MT cuz I had the best pre MC gear to tank and kept going as MT till original naxx.

    2nd time around, I quit playing wow with all the BC hype and came back 4-5 months after BC and was OT for a guild and the maintank(GM) rerolled so the role was given to me cuz I was the better threat generating tank than the other OT and in Wrath, even though it doesnt matter atm, I'm still MT hoping things would change in ulduar.

    Now I sit myseelf out on almost all the content and let new tanks tank/get geared.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xav View Post
    Your raid absolutely must trust you with their lives. The main tank has to instill confidence in the raid, and must not be the type to ever be unsure about anything.

    This is very true. The raid should trust you completely and totally. And once they do you will be the MT

  12. #32
    Insatiable curiosity, a big mouth, and the worst case of know-it-all-itis that stems from the first two seems to land me in that position more often than I ever want it to.

  13. #33
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    we choose the one with the sexiest accent.. thats me right now.

  14. #34
    Hello,

    Well from what I have seen its mostly a respect your elders thing. What I mean by that is it's often the person that has proven himself/herself.

    Being main tank is more then just getting your ass kicked by the big boss, its about being a leader. People who know there class well and help others. Main tanks aren't so much as picked. Its more of an earned position.

    Also, titles can only carry a person so far. Being called a leader will not make you one.

    Ben

  15. #35
    Some of the better methods:
    -Russian Roulette
    -Drawing Straws
    -Spin the bottle
    -Rock Paper Scissors
    -(Dalaran) Coin Toss
    ...

    Ok craziness aside, all of the tanks I work with have the qualities required to tank (as Xav, not the op pointed out.) I trust them all, and we all can do our job.

    It just fell down to me a few times too many so I temporarily respecced dps so they get more of a chance at the angry end that I usually faced.

  16. #36
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    MT is the one that reads tankspot, other tanks are OT

  17. #37
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    in my 10man group, I am blessed with a great feral co-tank. He was the guilds MT before I showed up and armed with tankspot and EJ blew away everyones concepts of what a warrior could do. As far as Naxxramas, we split it up based on whose skillset is best suited for which role.

    anub - feral (adds are stunnable and warr got more stuns)
    widow - feral (adds are reflectable so I can dps on boss and keep aggro with SR)
    Maexxna - feral (shockwave is very reliable for the adds, swipe not so much)
    Noth - warrior (swipe more consistent than TC for picking up adds)
    Heigan - warrior (kitty + hots + rebirth too useful)
    loatheb - warrior (cuz I got 40% block rating)
    patchwerk - /roll
    Grobbulus - patch soaker gets to MT this
    gluth - feral w/dps OT (prot warr kiting ftw!)
    Thaddius - warrior (kitty dps better than prot dps)
    Raz - adds tank!
    gothik - warr goes live, feral goes dead
    4H - meh
    sapphiron - warrior (feral dps/ennervate/rebirth/tranq)
    KT - warrior


    People really need to get out of the MT/OT concept and more of a tanking team mindset.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by veneretio View Post
    MT is all about Trust.

    I've forced my raid to Trust the other tanks in the guild too by making them MT fights, but the reality is at the end of the day, I'm still the Main Tank. How did I gain that trust?

    - I lead every 5 man I've ever tanked
    - I've tanked for every single guild member in a 5-man
    - My 5-mans are 99% of the time a fast, fun experience
    - I researched my class more than anyone in my guild not just tanks
    - I led most of them through Karazhan and taught the leaders of the other runs the boss strats
    - I led all of their 25-mans for all of TBC
    - I had the best gear, enchants and gems of anyone in the guild not just the tanks
    - I talk on Vent, a lot

    And there's a whole lot more to it than that...

    What your original post tells me is you lack initiative. Yes, you can go read up strats, but ultimately, if you have to be asked to do this, you're already not MT worthy. As the MT, you are the rock the rest of guild rests upon. They need to know that when they walk into a fight that of all the people that can wipe the raid, you're the least likely to do so. Basically, even if you aren't the raid leader, you need to be able to lead the raid because ultimately, you're going to end up leading them one way or another due to the situations you'll be thrown into.


    Let me quote this pearl, perfectly agree with vene
    Worlde - Prot Paladin
    Darkworldie - Tank DW Frost DK
    Uord - Prot Warrior
    Huordie - Feral / Resto Druid

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadevarr View Post
    People really need to get out of the MT/OT concept and more of a tanking team mindset.
    While the main tank/offtank mindset is outdated you still want to have a main tank, the one everyone trusts and the one who leads his troops into battle.
    It just increases the success change if you have that beacon of trust in your guild.
    Main Tank doesn't mean the one tanking the boss anymore. (and often, offtanking is harder)

  20. #40
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    Oct 2008
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    I think we may be a bit of the exception in this regard, but we don't have any assignments for OT, MT, etc. (For that matter, we don't have raid officers, or set raid leaders. Anyone with the gumption can call a raid and run raids as they see fit.)

    I think too much of the 'gear up the MT' and put all of the focus on gearing up the most critical folks at the exclusion of others is a legacy of games like EQ. In those games loot was far more scarce and you could go weeks between the upgrades someone would need. With many more avenues to get gear, less dependance on gear check encounters, etc, I'm surprised this hasn't completely evaporated as a policy in all but the most progression centric guilds.

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