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Thread: how do you pick your MT?

  1. #1
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    how do you pick your MT?

    My guild has formed 2 groups for naxx and other raids, I was told I'd be an OT for 1 of the groups, which is fine with me. The question I have is, and I wanted to post here and maybe get some insight before I made waves in the guild, what is the criteria for MT? The guy they selected has less health and less mitigation/avoidance than I do. The only other difference between us is class, me being warr, and him a pally. He's done some raiding judging by some of his naxx aquired gear, and I haven't set foot in naxx, but have done OS and VoA. However I am perfectly capable of reading and watching strategies(thanx cider).

    thoughts?

  2. #2
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    There's a criteria for that? usually you have a bunch of tanks and a bunch of things to tank. When the encounter is tough, see who fits best each role. Easier or farm runs are typically done with random rolls to decide who tanks here XD

  3. #3
    MT/OT is all moot anyway.. why have expectations of either? Having experience helps. Go watch all the videos in the video area and memorize your naxx encounters and show how you're ahead of the curve and earn your role of choice. Or find a new guild

  4. #4
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    Skill > Spec > Gear

    Pick the one that generates the best threat, knows when to blow his cooldowns or when to save them, when to move and when to stand the hell still.

    Gear is a non-issue for anything in naxx10 at the moment, and most of naxx25. Only malygos and sarth+2/3d will require tanks to have some decent gear. Skill, knowing to improvise, reading up on the fight and being the better tank is something you still need to distinguish yourself from the average pug.

  5. #5
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    Well, in all honesty I wouldn't weigh the role as OT the same as you would've in vanilla or TBC. Just talk to the other tank and switch roles every so often. Regardless of what people say, you'll be better off for getting the experience of all bosses in all roles for the both of you.

    There's no real criterium for selecting who is designated MT or OT, so maybe the guy is percieved to be better, or they like him better or maybe they just flipped a coin. Who knows. Just have fun is what I say.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, random rolls are fun. 'Cause if we don't do it like that, it usually goes, "You wanna tank this guy?"
    "Idc. You?"
    "Idc either."
    And then we stand there looking like a couple of stupid orcs for a few seconds. Taking turns also works if you are both geared enough for anything.

    Sometimes MT position just goes to the one who has more experience (either been a tank longer or has just raided his ass off), if stats/gear are about the same on both parties. And being an OT isn't a bad thing. Think of it like a training run ( I dunno if you've been with your current guild a while now or not). Go a few times, watch what MT does. Show you can prove yourself a reliable part of the team, and then go from there.

    Although, sometimes it blows that a guy might be Mt just because he's friend's with the gm. Which really sucks if you know you can out tank the other person.

    I dunno, I'd try a raid at least once before you started making any waves.

  7. #7
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    You don't pick a main tank, your main tank picks you

    Well, while that was kind of a joke there's some truth in that.
    There are more things you would want from your main tank then just gear/skill. It's a combination of attitude, skill and trust that you need. A raid that trusts their MT will do better then one not trusting their MT. Also high attendance and reliability (staying in guild for good or for bad) are important factors in being a MT.
    We've got a tankteam of 4 and I kinda am the main tank. That's not because I'm best skilled/geared. I'm confident any of our tanks can tank anything in game atm. (bar sartharion 3d, we use the druid for that.) But I am the one least afraid to step up, to take charge and to speak on vent. Also the raid trusts me to make the right calls and do my job. That's what in the end makes me the MT.
    Let's say you're in the raid(not a tank), and the raidleader asks: "who is gona tank this?" and tank 1 hesitates and tank 2 replies: "I can tank him np.". Do you really think your raid has a big trust of a good outcome when tank 1 tanks?

  8. #8
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    I haven't assigned a guild MT since Molten Core. The designation itself might be prestige to some but really it only serves as inflating one persons ego and telling a few others that they are second rung. Pick a tank based on the fight and who you have confidence in performing that specific fight well. If that is one of multiple tanks, you are in a good place and can pick either or and perhaps alternate with other bosses.

  9. #9
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    Dance Off!

  10. #10
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    I am lucky in that I normally share tanking duties with a feral druid, while I am a warrior. If the fight truly requires one tank like a few of the encounters in Naxx do then I am MT and he goes cat to help pour on the DPS. If two tanks are needed we normally take turns or is there is a lot of scattered adds I pick up adds since druids have a rougher time with positioning, while I can thunderclap and have less restrictions on my AE agro generation.

  11. #11
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    usually, we flip back and forward depending on the situation. Single target and AoE often warrant different tanks, or go smoother at least.

    I wouldn't say there is a criteria. for example, someone with more avoidance won't necessarily AoE tank better than someone with less.
    It's always easier to just be nice.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokeh View Post
    Skill > Spec > Gear

    Gear is a non-issue for anything in naxx10 at the moment, and most of naxx25. Only malygos and sarth+2/3d will require tanks to have some decent gear. .
    I agree that skill accounts for a lot in this game but these types of comments are no help to anyone (imo)

    Maybe i'll turn up to our next Sapph/patchwerk fight with an HP pool of 25k raid buffed and 539 defence and little avoidance !!!

  13. #13
    Assuming you are both capable tanks and have sufficient gear to tackle the encounters then I'd suggest taking turns with the other tank in your group on each encounter.

    Your guild might think it's a great idea to make the other tank their "main tank" for all the single-boss encounters; but if he's unavailable or decides to leave the guild then your guild will be stuck and probably take a massive step backwards.

    Our guild has about 8 tanks (warriors,paladins,druids & DKs) capable of tackling Naxx,OS and EoE at the moment. Our raid leaders are making a point of ensuring that each of us has a fair share of practice on each encounter. Obviously some encounters are better suited to certain classes/builds so we do factor that in too.
    This means that we are unlikely to be the first guild to down Arthas, and sometimes I have to sit-out a raid or tag-along in another capacity. But it does mean that when members are unavailable we can continue more-or-less regardless as long as we have the right balance of abilities in the raid group.
    It also means that (for example) the first time I tanked Noth I had a couple of people available to offer advice from personal experience; which I can then similarly share with others.

    Gearing- and skilling-up a larger group of people will, imho, offer greater long-term benefits to everyone in your guild; rather than focusing on a few individuals.
    Last edited by Corto; 01-27-2009 at 07:07 AM.

  14. #14
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    The only concern I'd have if I were you, being MT/OT, is the fact that your red bar goes up a lot slower if not being beat on. I'm the MT of my run, with another warrior as my OT. Typically, I will have him taunt off me to get some rage on encounters where only one tank is needed (healers are notified prior to so we don't dies!)

    Edit: Not to mention one of your more damaging ability (Revenge) revolves around you avoiding an attack.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by komatsu View Post
    He's done some raiding judging by some of his naxx aquired gear, and I haven't set foot in naxx
    For that reason, I'd have the other guy "MT" to begin too, if only so you can get some first hand experience of the encounters and gear up in the process. I've also tended to find that prot pallies aren't well suited to an offtank role, as they don't seem to have an obvious fallback role when not tanking (judge stuff + heal a bit or dps a bit but neither terribly well? I'd love to be updated/corrected on this if I'm out of date) whereas the warrior can more easily do a debuffing + dps role in single tank fights.

    In raids, I tend to cycle the tanks for most of the encounters - ie. take turns. I do this to keep people involved, interested, spread the experience etc. For some, I'll pick based on class (I like block tanks at loatheb for example). For progression content, I'd look to match the skills, class abilities and style of the tank to the role.

  16. #16
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    The role of 'MT' carries alot less weight than it used to. Gear progression is alot less linear and you have alot of alternatives and options along the way so that you aren't necassarily stacking one player up with the best gear. It just isn't necassary.

    We do have a nominal MT, though, and it came about as such: He and I have been tanking together for a long time. I have left the guild a couple times and come back and he has taken periodic breaks from the game but over the past 3-4 years, he and I have traded the title back and forth. He was the MT for MC and BWL then took a break. I MT's BWL and AQ40 a bit then into Naxx. We raided together some in BC where I MT'd and he backed me up. Now we're back to him MTing and me OTing.

    It works because we are friends. It works because my ambitions are more along the lines of group progression. I see us as equals and we theorycraft loot alot so we are on the same page. Its a fun little game figuring out how to build my gear being second banana. We don't have to defer, we do run on DKP, but it makes it nice and smooth this way.

    We have an uncanny penchant for letting the MT die at bad times yet are able to kill damn near everything in game without any trouble. I'm quick to pick up when needed. He doesn't talk on vent very much and is a little more laid back so I generally lead tank trash clearing and set the raid pace but our pally has come on strong in that department as well. And the pally tank MT's Patchwerk.

    We all have our roles and none of us really need the MT title to propr up our ego. A strong stable of tanks is better than having one stud and a couple of weaker role players. It entirely possible to get everyone geared to the gills without sacrificing anywhere and at most, on that one sweet item (like Last Laugh) we might have to wait but meh....its not like Red Sword is garbage...
    your hat may be nice, but I have the little white tank top that says Legendary right across my boobs. I win. (or more correctly, H wins)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokeh View Post
    Skill > Spec > Gear
    I actually would say:

    Experience > Skill > Gear > Spec (As long as a tank spec)



    EDIT: Side question, do most of you use your second best tank and MT for patchwork? I normally OT, but will MT for patchwork since a warrior or paladin normally has higher mitigation and HP pool.

  18. #18
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    For trash there is no such thing as MT or OT, keep the mobs stuck to either of you and thats all that is necessary.

    Now for bosses, in my guild for both 25 and 10 we know our roles, some nights I 'MT' some nights I don't. But in 10 man, whoever aggros the boss first is MT.

    What is most important for you and your guild is knowing what is going on at all times. Like someone said Earn your role. There is a HUGE difference between tanks now. And that difference is skill. Learn to blow your cool downs (esp since ours are on 5 min timers) when you anticipate a problem. Triple trash pull? Blow SW and LS with Shield Block.

    I learned something really valuable when I started running with my new guild. And that was tanks working together. Not necessarily needing to say something when something is going wrong, but reacting to it. Tank 1 pulls 10 heavy hitting mobs? Peal a few off of him. Keep your TC/CS/Demo Shout up, etc...

    Try and find a balance between you 2. Talk after a raid, see what you each can do different to help each other out. The better the tanks work together the more efficient/better the raid will end up.

    Best of luck to you!

  19. #19
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    I see this question come up time and time again, so I thought I might comment on it. It's often some enthusiastic tank who may be new on the scene asking how/ why the main tank should be chosen often comparing stats and wondering why they are not getting the top job.

    As far as I'm concerned, there's often a very simple reason for this, and it has very little to do with the technical aspects of tanking.

    It is to do with the hierarchy of your guild. Naturally, guild leaders, officers, friends or long time veterans will get first dips on any of the tanking jobs, because they are rare positions and its nice to have someone in that position, who has been through a lot with you. Not necessarily because they are the best damned player, but because they are good enough and they probably deserve to play a position of their choice.

    In fact, lots of tanks start their own guilds, or lead raids so that they have the opportunity to main tank or tank whenever they like. If you are a new member to a guild, you're more than likely going to have to jump in line for the tanking positions, or at least be prepared to prove yourself. Not just as a player but as a person, for a decent length of time, even if you are twice as good as anyone else.

    Here's my tip: Instead of relying on dazzling people with your superior stats and threat, try to work on your 'standing' in the guild, and improve your reputation and show your commitment before you expect that your going to be given the most exclusive position in the raiding game.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by komatsu View Post
    My guild has formed 2 groups for naxx and other raids, I was told I'd be an OT for 1 of the groups, which is fine with me. The question I have is, and I wanted to post here and maybe get some insight before I made waves in the guild, what is the criteria for MT? The guy they selected has less health and less mitigation/avoidance than I do. The only other difference between us is class, me being warr, and him a pally. He's done some raiding judging by some of his naxx aquired gear, and I haven't set foot in naxx, but have done OS and VoA. However I am perfectly capable of reading and watching strategies(thanx cider).

    thoughts?
    Honestly, if he has Naxx experience and you don't, he should probably MT until you get some experience there anyways. As far as health/avoidance go, you both already have more than enough for Naxx, so it really doesn't matter who has more/less. Just make sure you approach him nicely (or the raid leader) and let him know that you are interested in MT. They will probably swap you in and out some as they progress.

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