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Thread: Some Tanking Problems.

  1. #1

    Some Tanking Problems.

    Hello there,

    Let me first introduce myself.

    I am ShadowBumble playing this game for a little over a year now and i have a Warrior, I leveled/Raided as Fury from Level 10 till lv75, then i decided to go Prot since i wanted to try something new.

    Well Since i am still prot you can probably see i like this game style a lot. But this bring me in with some questions, some things i cannot simply get right.

    First my Build i currently use this Build.

    The problem i have isn't really on Single targets but more on the Multi Mob Tanking Part, i cannot seem to get it right.

    After 2 Wipes in Sar last night ( one my fault as OT and one the MT's fault ) i got replaced, no hard feeling about that but it made me sick about the fact i simply suck at multi mob tanking.

    So i tried tanking Herioc UP which went very well up till Skadi where i couldn't get the large mob right.

    So basically my question here is do you guyz got tips in the following things :

    1) My Build.
    2) My Rotations.

    Rotation i currently use for Multi Mob Tanking is as followed :

    1) Thunderclap.
    2) Demo Shout.
    3) Shockwave.
    - Start tabbing -
    4) Shield Slam, Revenge, Herioc Strike , Devastate, Devastate, Cleave as Rage Dump.
    5) Thunderclap every CD.
    6) Shockwave every CD.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    109
    Right, I took a look at your gear, and at your rotation. Your gear and spec are fine really, although don't forget your threat generating stats.

    Just the rotation first. Drop Demo shout. Specially when grabbing aggro it's a waste of the GCD imho. The right rotation would be TC > Shockwave > SS > TC > tab while using the rotation priorities (aka SS > Revenge > Conc Blow > Shockwave etc while using rage dumps).

    If you don't get the aggro on something right away you'll be hard(er) pressed to gain aggro. Getting aggro from someone requires you to have 110% of their threat. That's a lot harder to get then just making sure you're on the ball right away and get the aggro before you need to work for that 110%.

    Secondly, Your initial TC > Shockwave > ?? > TC should be enough you keep adds off your healers, unless they are really powerspamming their heals at that moment. Because your original post didn't say who was getting aggro from you, I'm going assume it was the DPS. That can be annoying, expecially with the AoE focus in the game right now.
    Something you can consider for that is dumping Vigilance to whoever is doing the most threat. I habitually give our mage vigilance, because he's an AoE madman. Not only does that tranfer 10% of his threat to me, I also get free taunts if he happens to grab aggro anyways. Vigilance can be a really nice tool when used right.

    I haven't seen you play, but I think the main issue is not to be discouraged. Just keep trying and make sure your groups understand your issue and support you. holding the AoE for 2 seconds is really not going to wipe your group in any heroic.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    43
    Demoshout generate almosty zero threat, and generally used only when you want some less damage. *Yoda voice* For AOE threat, not want it, you.

    What I do when multimob tanking:

    Heroic throw one mob, Shield Block, Charge, thunderclap, Shield slam second mob, (position mobs), Shockwave, Concussion blow third, and then i tab-SS, Rev, Devastate all of them, watching for "Losing Threat" message. TC and SW on cooldown. And Cleaves of course.

    You can lock one mob for a long time (Taunt-Mocking blow-Conc Blow-Taunt-Shockwave) if you want some time with others

    Idea is to fix aggro on maximum amount of mobs. For example, you can Revenge one, and immediately use free Heroic Strike on another (do not macro it!).

    Enchant you bracers with expertise. And use expertise/stamina gems on you red and blue slots, if you can afford some HP lost.
    Enchant sword with Titanium weapon chain.
    Farm exalted with SoH for shoulder enchant.
    Last edited by Braggha; 01-27-2009 at 01:49 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    18
    Just to give you an idea of what my rotation looks like.

    Thunderclap
    Shockwave
    Demo Shout
    Shield Block
    Thunderclap
    Shield Slam > Revenge > blah blah blah

    Here is my theory on leaving Demo shout in and Shield Block. After your first Thunderclap then Shockwave, your Tunderclap is on cooldown. But not for that long anymore. I believe its a 6 sec cooldown. Especially since everything is so set on AOE tanking I would really concentrate on hitting that second Thunderclap ASAP. So when you do your Thunderclap then Shockwave, you have still a couple seconds before Thunderclap is up, so you throw up Demo Shout and Sield Block to help mitigate dmg, then your Thunderclap is definately up again. If you feel like you can only hit Demo shout in that time, then do that in the mean time. It will take a little time but you will start to develope a rythem. I know you said you use Thunderclap when on cooldown but in this rotation it makes sure you use it a second time, before even starting on Shield Slam....etc. Since the patch not only is the cooldown for Thunderclap shorter, it also gives a ton more hate than it did before, so that should help you. Also use your Vigalance of course. At the start of an instance I like to leave it off and see who generates the most hate. Then Vig them. Although, when in doubt, Vigalance the Mage or any other AOE whore lol. It will ensure that your keeping hate in those critical AOE situations. Hope this helps. Everyone developes their own rotation. After the basics are met, its up to you to decide what works best for you. You can also get the newly revised Cleave Glyph. It now hits 3 targets. Might help.
    80 War Avviax, server Malorne

  5. #5
    play counterstrike for a while and you'll be great at aoe tanking.


    tbh it's not a rotation so don't worry too much about it. it's just about interacting with mobs and gathering them up in a timely fashion with mouse looking and sidestepping and jump turning etc...

    then bam THUNDERCLAP
    then step through and turn and BAM SHOCKWAVE

    then TARGET one and BAM! SHIELD SLAM!!!
    then target another and BAM!!! REVENGE!!! or something else etc.. etc...

    if there is one game you could play to get good at wow, it isn't wow.

  6. #6
    Thanks a lot all for the comments but what basically is said here that it's not a gear issue, it's not a rotation issue, but more a " habit " issue and making sure you stick to the routine ( specially in the picking up aggro phase ).

    So i will try to practice also a lot and more and more till i do it with my eyes closed, and simply never give up about it, until i get the hang of it

    Great to get some fresh minds on it Gives a whole new perspective since i really was starting to believe it was just all my fault and i suck at it when i got replaced last night.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
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    I agree with fatbchris' rotation.

    1. Thunderclap
    2. Shockwave
    3. Demoralizing Shout
    4. Shield Block
    5. Usually you can get a shield slam in here
    6. Thunderclap
    7. Tab
    8. Revenge (Should be up now due to block)
    9. Tab
    10. Devastate & Heroic Strike
    11. Thunderclap
    12. Tab
    13. Shield Slam
    etc.

    By this point one of the mobs is probably dead.

    What I find really helps me out too, with singe target DPS anyways, is to at least mark a skull or x or whatever for the first kill. This is the target you should hit with the initial shield slam. For heroics, tell your DPS at the start of the instance that Skull = Kill First, you generally don't have to mark past that (and people will groan about going slow if you), but marking the mob as you charge in (keybind it of course) if easy to do and doesn't slow the run down. Of course it's better to mark the healer mob for the kill, but I find that if DPS is at least on the same target to start, healer mob or not, it'll still go fairly smooth.

    Have your taunt ready of course for the one mob that escapes and heads for the critting caster with aggro issues that looks like a big owl.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    17
    What are you glyphed for? I have found the Sunder Armor glyph helps when tanking multiple mobs.

    I'll usually charge in, TC, throw a shield slam on the 1st kill mob, position the group, get off a shockwave, then start the tab-devestate-cleave rotation throwing in a TC or shockwave if the cool down is up.

    As for H UP, the Skadi gauntlet can be a royal pain. I don't think I've ever managed it "the right way." I've always "cheesed" it by starting the encounter, running back into the previous room then running down the balcony and tanking everything by the harpoon launchers.

    If you are set on running it the right way I can only advise not to forget Heroic Throw, Concussion Blow & Mocking blow to get some aggro.

  9. #9
    As far as rotation demo shout is kind of worthless for threat so I would leave it out if your healer is good, and if you need it for survivability only use it after you feel your threat is good.

    Something I find to be amazing ATM for multi tanking is glyph of cleaving, which was changed in the last patch to add +1 to the number of targets cleave hits. Currently I run glyph of devastate, blocking, and cleaving. I have noticed a huge difference switching to glyph of cleaving on my aoe threat while tanking trash and in heroics.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    22

    Concerning cleave

    In addition to the comments made previously, Iíd encourage you to be more aggressive with cleave, not just using it as a rage dump. If you canít use devastate because you used your rage on cleave, itís not to be worried about.

    Also, be sure to identify the main target for the dps. If half your dps is concentrating on one mob while half is concentrating on another, itís going to make life a lot more difficult than it needs to be.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    9
    its this simple man .....throw at an off target and pop zerker rage....then charge ur focus target (skull....thunderclap...shockwave....then tab target ss,cleave,revenge....then just thunderclap and sw when the cd's are up....while continuing to devistate ss and revenge....when you have a nice threat lead and theres mor ethan one melee mob up then you can demo shout

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    240
    Thunderclap, Shockwave, and Cleave (glyphed) is all you really need. Make sure these attacks hit everyone in the pack. Taunt & Shield Slam, or Taunt & Heroic Throw if a mob peels off you for some reason.
    Stay strong. Stay smart. All heart.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by Halgreg View Post
    Thunderclap, Shockwave, and Cleave (glyphed) is all you really need. Make sure these attacks hit everyone in the pack. Taunt & Shield Slam, or Taunt & Heroic Throw if a mob peels off you for some reason.
    This.

    My typical rotation is this almost exactly. The only time I deviate is when there are two casters. Caster 1 is my skull target, caster 2 is my X. I charge the Heroic Throw the X as I move forward to charge the skull. Thunderclap, continue straight through the pack, and spin around. Shockwave. SS on the skull target because the dps is opening up on him. Thunderclap, cleave, devestate, SS, etc etc etc.

  14. #14

    War tanking problems

    Greetings,

    I am an Off tank in Naxx for both 25 and 10 man raids. I also am having a major problem keeping up with the MT's in threat generation. I am using the rotation or rather priority list outlined here Tanking "Cycle" and Priorities - Elitist Jerks And this is my gear and spec The World of Warcraft Armory

    Now here is the competition for other guild raider tanks.
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    I know i am outgeared, out gemmed and out chanted. My main question is what gear/chants/gems should i be getting so that i can exceed their Threat per second or at least keep up. Right now i am about 500 TPS behind. Any insight would be appreciated.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,908
    Why are you having to "keep" up ?

    Your not going to be able to keep up with the person who has agro as the "OT", you dont have the revenge procs or the rage to do it.

    Is the problem that when you are OTing one of the mobs that the DPS is catching you ?

    describe a situation where you are having problems.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ifoundgoldbug View Post
    Greetings,

    I am an Off tank in Naxx for both 25 and 10 man raids.

    <snip snap>

    I know i am outgeared, out gemmed and out chanted. My main question is what gear/chants/gems should i be getting so that i can exceed their Threat per second or at least keep up. Right now i am about 500 TPS behind. Any insight would be appreciated.

    You will never need to keep up to the MT with TPS, technically if you are to OT you only need to worry about the mobs not letting loose since all DPS will be focussed on the MT's target.

    So please can you give us some more details.

    So no off topic : WTF OT both Naxx10 and Naxx25 ? grmbl grmbl my guild doesn't even want to take me raiding becuase they preffer other tanks.

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