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Thread: first time poster, lots of questions!!

  1. #1
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    first time poster, lots of questions!!

    Hello everyone!

    I was referred here by a pally I met in trade chat, he told me you guys are the best reference for tanks so here I am!

    I'm an 80 def spec warrior with a crappy gear combo, in a tiny guild (about 8 or so actual ppl, 40 toons) that manages to run 5 mans with 4 ppl. I have o many questions that I don't know where to start. I guess I can start by linking my gear from the armory HERE

    First question: My healer (an 80 druid, Tree form) says I have a hard time holding aggro because instead of him having to heal just me he has to heal me and the DK. I notice I have an excruciating time holding multiple mobs. How do I fix this?

    2nd: How can I get myself some better gear short of raiding? I do what I can with blacksmithing, but I can only do so much. Where are the best pieces? For that matter, WHAT are the best pieces?

    3rd: How can I raise my def. rating? I've done all I can with gems but not sure what else to do.

    I'm so sorry for the barrage my first post off, but I feel like I play pretty well, but I'm not doing the right things when I'm not in combat, like upping my stats during my offtime. Any and all guidance is very appreciated.

    SJ

  2. #2
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    Welcome to Tankspot! This is a great place to make yourself more knowledgeable about not only your class and spec, but the game as well. I'll jump on the easiest question to answer.

    Question 3)
    How can I raise my def. rating?

    Ok this is a common new guy question. Ciderhelm has made some really nice tutorials about becoming Nax geared. If your target is to become a better 5 man tank then here (clicky!) is a great link.

    I can't really see your gear at the moment as my office blocks everything, however the gear listed on that tutorial represents gear that is beyond sufficient for beginning to tank high end instances. 540 is what you should shoot for to start out with and you should be able to do that with a minimal amount of gems.

    Welcome to the forums again!
    Execute for show, tank for dough.

  3. #3
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    Actually I'm in a pretty similar situation to you.

    Oh.. OK, I can't look at your armory either, so I wrote a bunch of stuff in ignorance, then found an alternative that's NOT blocked at work. If you already have what's below, ignore it.

    I note a lot of your stuff is PvP. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. It's worth pointing out that defense stacks with resil, so you can make up the difference. I don't know what ratio they relate, but you probably have the equivalent of 540.

    It's possible you logged out in PvP gear after an arena, or something, but you have a mix of PvP and tanking gear, which confuses me somewhat. I'll assume this IS what you're tanking in. If I'm wrong... oh well.

    PvP stuff can be OK, especially if it's only a peice or two here or there. That being said, they're not itemised for tanking. You're wasting the item value on crit, improved hamstring, etc. They're better than nothing, but you'd probably be better off with dedicated tanking gears for things like your gloves.

    1. being a Blacksmith helps.
    The blacksmith Tempered Saronite gear is stacked with defense to such a degree that you actually lose def going into heroics and naxx. Tempered Titansteel Helm is overpowered now (which is a good thing if it's your gear), so that's a good choice. As well as gear, Blacksmiths get the ability to socket gloves and... um.. bracers, I think it is? Those two extra sockets come in handy.

    2. Rep grind
    The Revered gear for Wyrmrest is great, specifically the footsies and chest. You won't find much better out of Naxx, and the 35g for the Sabatons is cheaper than the cost of the mats for Tempered Titansteel Treads by a lot. (Correction, you have the sabatons, so no big deal.) You can get good tanking legs from Ebon Hold at only honoured, which is easily achieved with quests alone. The head enchant from Argent Crusade at revered is worth the grind, and your Titansteel helm deserves it. Hell, I've just done the quests in Icecrown and Zul'Drak and I'm almost there.

    3. Enchants and gems
    This gets expensive, but you can stack an insane amount of defense through your enchants. Chest and Shield are 22 each. You can similarly gem for defense, though not much pre-raid/heroics has many sockets. Don't forget to grab an Eternal Belt Buckle off the AH. Your shoulders have no enchant. If you made a Tempered Saronite Spaulders for 10g or so of mats and threw an aldor/scryer enchant of it you'd get a big chunk of defense essentially free.

    4. Dump your icebane frost resist
    The frost resist gear is not too bad, but you're better off with something with defense there if you're not capped. Frost resist is only useful in one fight in Naxx, and not worth compromising your whole set for. There are better chests and waists.

    4. Dungeons
    There's less gear in the normal instances than you'd expect for a tank, but the quest rewards are great. Gundrak, for example, has a good chest. Not as good as the Wyrmrest one but not bad. Heroics have even better stuff, and if you wear your Wyrmrest tabard you'll get closer still.

    Ummm... hopefully that helps. For the record I've done two heroics. Complete Nexus (barely) and repeat wiping on Violet Hold. I play no more than a few hours a week. I have never raided. And my defense is 550+, and my stamina still slightly above yours. It's not hard to get if you know where to look.

  4. #4
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    Hi Sonja, and welcome - this is a great place to ask questions and get them answered without the use of stupid trolls and complete retards on wow forums.

    I'll begin with your gear.

    Gear is everywhere u can see you just need to look, there are alot of stickys on this site on how to gear and where to get it from.

    Drop your FrR gear for the Wyrmrest Rep gear, Your gear isnt to shabby ive seen alot worse, Some slight tweeking and you can get your stats looking alot better and def capped.

    Get your chest, shield, cloak, Bracers enchanted with +def rating
    Get your Head enchant from Argent Crusade (you can get this at Revered, your nearly there) +30stam and +20 def.

    I would change your spec, Cruelty, Imp Disciplines, Puncture, Imp Disarm and Vigilance isnt needed, Unless your using this for PvP.
    15/3/53 is the deep wounds spec i am (PvE Spec)
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    With the tweaking of your gem choices, gear and new enchants its possible to get to 540, but you have to replace that resilience gear with +def gear (get from Wyrmrest).

    Your hit is very low, Go pick up a titanium weapon chain, also you can get the enchant to boots to pick up more hit.


    Now for you having trouble with multi-mobs.

    just make sure you dont devastate, I hear alot of new warriors still doing what we did in BC prior, and thats DEV tab DEV etc.

    Be sure to charge or range pull, Thunderclap, Shockwave then Shieldslam first target, and cleave, thunderclap, Shield slam, rinse and repeat (i tab to new target to hit with shield slam).

    If your taking on lots of mobs then always keep up ur AOE abilities, Thunderclap every CD, Shockwave, and Spam Cleave are ur best friends in situations like this, chuck in Shield Slams when ever u can in ur rotation to different mob.

    There is alot for you to do and grasp, but with doing these things and at least getting to 535 def (cap for Heroics) or 540 def (cap for Raids) then you will start to pick up your Epics and everything falls into place once ur capped.

    I hope ive helped somewhat, reply back if you have anymore questions, i'll do my best to answer =D

  5. #5
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    Yeah, I still devastate pretty often. More on single mobs than multi, though. Devastate isn't the powerhouse it used to be.

    Shockwave is godly. Abuse it. (if you have the rage) Consider the Glyph of Sunder Armor if you can spare the slot. And don't already have it. But yeah, the buff (ages ago) to Thunderclap is a big help. Thunderclap and cleave are great in multi-mob stuff. Don't dismiss demo-shout either. It's not a huge agro, but it's on a lot of mobs, and will get you hit less.

    Concussion Blow doesn't trigger the GCD, and has a pretty big threat, so consider something like Concussion Blow -> tab -> Shield Slam for a decent threat application on two targets. (It also stuns one of them, which is always fun.)

  6. #6
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    I used to Devastate often in my rotation as well, then i wondered why i was only doing 900 to 1100 dps in naxx, I tried a different rotation leaving devastate out completely except to apply the 5 debuff, and now im doing +1600 dps.

    I will never devastate often ever again hahaha

  7. #7
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    ok, I was so excited after the first response! I clicked on the link that Khue shared and I went about crafting what I could. I ended up making almost every piece of the tempered saronite set (had the mats sitting in the bank) and have since raised my def from 488 to 523. My husband is an enchanter but doesn't have all the great enchants that the guide I was looking at mentioned. I might just try what I have out on some mobs in reg nexus to see how it goes.

    I notice ppl talking about roatations. I have to admit I only recently specced protection after being an arms warrior up until LK, then was fury for leveling. Now that I'm def. specced, here's my rotation: charge (most of the time), devastate x2 (glyph gives 2 sunders for every 1 devastate), Battle Shout, Thunderclap, Revenge (any time it pops). After all that I usually spam devastate, revenge and thunderclap. I know that's prolly wrong as hell. I admit I'm totally winging it. Successfully tanked heroic nexus that way, so who knows!

    So in the meantime, as I work on my gear, what are some good rotations that I can try out?

    PS: THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!! I am a sponge and am soaking it all in trust me!
    Last edited by SonjaJade; 01-26-2009 at 11:51 PM.

  8. #8
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    The way I think about rotations are more about priorities, someone drew a nice flow chart somewhere on this site, but I can't remember where. So here are two fairly simple type of rotations:

    For a single mob, something along the lines of
    charge -> shield slam -> revenge (if you can) -> devastate --- basically keep shield slam and revenge on cd whenever you can, if you can't use either of them devastate.
    Once you get happy with that weaving in conc blow, bloodrage, heroic strike etc is worth it

    On multi mobs
    Heroic throw one, charge another, thunderclap, shockwave, then tab revenge/shieldslam/devastate (same prio as single mobs), using thunderclap and shockwave when off cd.

    I admit to being very lazy about battle shout, I usually chuck commanding shout up on bosses or hard hitting trash but otherwise don't use either in 5mans, I do usually run with a pally dps/healer so often have BoM.

    Not sure what rep you are prioritsing to grind, but Argent Crusade (I'm pretty sure) has the tank helm enchant, while wyrmrest has the most tank gear. The link to Cider's pre 540def gear should give you some suggestions of instances to run and rep to grind.
    Last edited by Shortypop; 01-27-2009 at 01:00 AM.
    **Give me a hug and I'll defend you with my life**
    Blog: http://www.tankspot.com/blog.php?550-Shortypop

  9. #9
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    FIRST:

    Get the gun from Engineering and 24 stam gem in it.
    Enchant:
    Get 20+ Defence rating on your shield
    Get 22+ Defence rating on your chest
    Get 40+ stam on your wrist
    Get 22+ stam on your Feet
    Get 2% threat and 10 parry rating on your gloves
    Get 15+ defence rating on cloak

    Legenchant:
    Get 55+ stam and 22+agi on your leggings

    reputation gained:
    Sons of Hodir:
    Shoulder enchant 20 defence rating 10 dodge rating
    Argent crusade:
    Head enchant:
    Get 37+ stam and 22+ defence rating on your head

    thats a good start!
    buy:
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    Get the gun from Engineering and 24 stam gem in it:
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    if on AH:
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Azjol Nerub:
    trinket:
    111+ stam and absorbing shield when struck
    Belt from last boss
    leggings from VH:
    Bolstered leggings.

    Sword from UP:
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    from badges of heroism
    Epic neck 25 badges
    dodge trinket(if u dont have over 20% dodge) 40 badges
    if u cant get drop from Azjol nerub buy the belt for 40 badges
    tier 7 gloves 60 emblems
    tier 7 chest 70 emblems

    2nd:

    Vigilance is indeed needed if u have threat problems!

    My Spec:

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
    i pref. going Shield reflect beacause it protects others

    that was all my help (:
    check me out and get help from talents and items if u need!

    The World of Warcraft Armory

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonjaJade View Post
    ok, I was so excited after the first response! I clicked on the link that Khue shared and I went about crafting what I could. I ended up making almost every piece of the tempered saronite set (had the mats sitting in the bank) and have since raised my def from 488 to 523. My husband is an enchanter but doesn't have all the great enchants that the guide I was looking at mentioned. I might just try what I have out on some mobs in reg nexus to see how it goes.

    I notice ppl talking about roatations. I have to admit I only recently specced protection after being an arms warrior up until LK, then was fury for leveling. Now that I'm def. specced, here's my rotation: charge (most of the time), devastate x2 (glyph gives 2 sunders for every 1 devastate), Battle Shout, Thunderclap, Revenge (any time it pops). After all that I usually spam devastate, revenge and thunderclap. I know that's prolly wrong as hell. I admit I'm totally winging it. Successfully tanked heroic nexus that way, so who knows!

    So in the meantime, as I work on my gear, what are some good rotations that I can try out?

    PS: THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!! I am a sponge and am soaking it all in trust me!
    and to help you

    make a macro for when starting a combat with

    start in defence stance ofc.

    Macro:
    /cast Heroic throw
    /cast Charge
    /cast Blood Rage
    /cast shield Block
    this should give you alot of rage and threat on start mob.

    after that -->
    Thunder clap --> shockwave --> spam revenge/shield slam --> 3x devastate. and just go that in circle.

  11. #11
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    and you should also do

    Utgaarde keep, The Nexus, The Violet Hold!

  12. #12
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    oh i forgot GET AN BELT BUCKLE

  13. #13
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    One thing you could possibly do with your rotation as well is get the Glyph of Bloodrage which after the patch is free rage with no health loss. Use bloodrage before the pull then use whichever shout you're going to use. Then go into your pull, this will save you 2 GCD's during the fight that you can use for threat priorities. If you get the Glyph of Revenge make a macro for revenge that queues up Heroic Strike when you hit it. The way I do it is during multi-mob fights I move my HS key off my binds and put cleave in it's place. During boss fights I'll swap them out again. This may not be the most efficient way but it works for me.

  14. #14
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    hello here is my armory link and i need some suggestions if i can start heroics or i need some upgrades first

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...sorrow&n=Gaspy

    many thanks

  15. #15
    here is a tip that will make you 200x better then most tanks.

    play counterstrike/fps games and you'll learn to mouse look and tank while stepping backwards avoiding flames and so on...

    you can do all your research in the world for best gear and rotation but if you can apply them with some creative footwork and keen attention to detail you'll be one of the better tanks on your realm.

    repositioning a boss in particular is something weird in wow but after experiencing various boss hitboxes and creature types it will become easier.

    also one thing i didn't learn until a year or so into wow (not necessarily tanking) you can't dodge / block / parry with your back turned to the boss!

  16. #16
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    Just to give you an idea of what my rotation looks like.

    Thunderclap
    Shockwave
    Demo Shout
    Shield Block
    Thunderclap
    Shield Slam > Revenge > blah blah blah

    Here is my theory on leaving Demo shout in and Shield Block. After your first Thunderclap then Shockwave, your Tunderclap is on cooldown. But not for that long anymore. I believe its a 6 sec cooldown. Especially since everything is so set on AOE tanking I would really concentrate on hitting that second Thunderclap ASAP. So when you do your Thunderclap then Shockwave, you have still a couple seconds before Thunderclap is up, so you throw up Demo Shout and Sield Block to help mitigate dmg, then your Thunderclap is definately up again. If you feel like you can only hit Demo shout in that time, then do that in the mean time. It will take a little time but you will start to develope a rythem. In this rotation it makes sure you use it a second time, before even starting on Shield Slam....etc. Since the patch not only is the cooldown for Thunderclap shorter, it also gives a ton more hate than it did before, so that should help you. Also use your Vigalance of course. At the start of an instance I like to leave it off and see who generates the most hate. Then Vig them. Although, when in doubt, Vigalance the Mage or any other AOE whore lol. It will ensure that your keeping hate in those critical AOE situations. Hope this helps. Everyone developes their own rotation. After the basics are met, its up to you to decide what works best for you. You can also get the newly revised Cleave Glyph. It now hits 3 targets. Might help. The general list of high threat moves include Shield Slam>Revenge>Devistate>Heroic Stirke>Concusion Blow. Those are your highest threat moves in order, roughly
    80 War Avviax, server Malorne

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odiin View Post
    hello here is my armory link and i need some suggestions if i can start heroics or i need some upgrades first

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    many thanks
    see my thread above^^

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty View Post
    FIRST:

    Get the gun from Engineering and 24 stam gem in it.
    Enchant:
    Get 20+ Defence rating on your shield
    Get 22+ Defence rating on your chest
    Get 40+ stam on your wrist
    Get 22+ stam on your Feet
    Get 2% threat and 10 parry rating on your gloves
    Get 15+ defence rating on cloak

    Legenchant:
    Get 55+ stam and 22+agi on your leggings

    reputation gained:
    Sons of Hodir:
    Shoulder enchant 20 defence rating 10 dodge rating
    Argent crusade:
    Head enchant:
    Get 37+ stam and 22+ defence rating on your head

    thats a good start!
    buy:
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    Get the gun from Engineering and 24 stam gem in it:
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    if on AH:
    The World of Warcraft Armory
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Azjol Nerub:
    trinket:
    111+ stam and absorbing shield when struck
    Belt from last boss
    leggings from VH:
    Bolstered leggings.

    Sword from UP:
    The World of Warcraft Armory

    from badges of heroism
    Epic neck 25 badges
    dodge trinket(if u dont have over 20% dodge) 40 badges
    if u cant get drop from Azjol nerub buy the belt for 40 badges
    tier 7 gloves 60 emblems
    tier 7 chest 70 emblems

    2nd:

    Vigilance is indeed needed if u have threat problems!

    My Spec:

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
    i pref. going Shield reflect beacause it protects others

    that was all my help (:
    check me out and get help from talents and items if u need!

    The World of Warcraft Armory

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    79
    Not to be rude, but "get this trinket that drops in heroic AN!" is not useful advice for a new player. If you can tank an instance well enough to get that far in heroic AN, you're not too shabby. (Or else you're geared out the wazoo...)

    Sonja, welcome to tanking. ;p

    Shield Slam is your friend. Shield Slam is your biggest damage-dealing tool. Shield Slam has an obscenely large threat bonus that scales with gear. Shield Slam is free sometimes, whenever Sword and Board procs.

    Unless a mob is actually chewing on your healer, if Shield Slam is up, slam something. ;p

    There's not really a rotation anymore these days, more like "cascading hierarchy of skills". Goes something like this...

    -For multi-mob tanking:
    --Is Shield Slam up? (if so, use it!)
    --Is Thunder Clap up? (if so, use it!)
    --Is Shockwave up? (if so, get the enemies in front of you and use it!)
    --Is Revenge up? (if so, use it! And watch for sword/board proc, for free shield slam)
    --Is Concussion Blow up? (if so, use it! Unless you need to save it for a stun?)
    --Do you need to reapply Demoralizing Shout? Commanding Shout or Battle Shout?
    --If nothing else is up, Devastate (and watch for sword/board proc)

    If you're tanking a single mob, and there's melee to benefit from the armor debuff, get some Devastates out there faster (but still use Shield Slam! Get ahead in aggro!) Move Thunder Clap down to just enough to keep the debuff on the mob - it's still a fantastic debuff.

  20. #20
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    Ty for your reply Shifty i really helpful.

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