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Thread: Why Focused Rage??

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitaniumGene View Post
    Well I can't seem to find the right rotation to dump my extra rage. The others in my guild always ask why I always have more than 50/100 rage points during battles, and I just can't seem to find the correct answer.
    You are probably not hitting heroic strike then if you're unable to get rid of your rage.
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  2. #22
    Actually you're right. I don't hit it as often as I can because I always end up spamming devastate, revenge, or shield slam. Occasionally I'll use my shouts and thunderclap.

  3. #23
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    that's where you're confused friend. Heroic strike is independent of the GCD, so you can do ALL of that. AND still queue up heroic strikes. do this THEN tell me if Focused Rage doesn't affect your rage.

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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    that's where you're confused friend. Heroic strike is independent of the GCD, so you can do ALL of that. AND still queue up heroic strikes. do this THEN tell me if Focused Rage doesn't affect your rage.
    This - as my gear has progressed even Patchwerk has become iffy in terms of infinite rage if I get an avoidance streak. Rage sheds quickly if you're replacing every white swing with HS and avoid 2-3 hits in a row.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    -3 rage on every single ability you use is hardly trivial compared to the minor gains you get in 3% extra shield block rating.
    Please tell me the situation that you are starved for rage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    that's where you're confused friend. Heroic strike is independent of the GCD, so you can do ALL of that. AND still queue up heroic strikes. do this THEN tell me if Focused Rage doesn't affect your rage.
    Again, please describe to me the situation where -6 rage HS is Necessary over -3 rage HS (from imp HS)...last i checked, 99.9% of the wow warrior community uses Heroic Strike as a rage dump and even still a LARGE portion of us are using the HS glphy which gets us rage back.

    I have yet to be in any situation where Rage was an issue and i'm an avid user of HS.

  6. #26
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    exactly. Unless you are replacing every white hit with a heroic strike WHILE keeping your rotation up and STILL sitting at 100 rage? Then focused rage is wasted. but if you're heroic striking as much as possible and having to stop then focused rage is being utilized EVERYTIME you push a button, and the more times you can HS the more threat/damage you're putting out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canariensis View Post
    Please tell me the situation that you are starved for rage?
    At beginning of fights when threat is most sensitive.

    When I'm queuing up heroic strikes and I reach <50 rage on lots of bosses (really the only true unlimited rage situation that I've encountered is thaddius because of the constant damage he puts out. Most other bosses have chances where you'll have to stop heroic striking due to a few avoidance streaks or just them not hitting very hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  8. #28
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    Show me a WWS of your raids where you have over 90% HS uptime without focused rage and I'll gladly shut up. Hey we're here to learn no reason to be confrontational but I personally find myself dropping below 50 rage on boss fights ALL the time and as such have to stop heroic striking. If i didn't have that -3 rage, I would've had to stop heroic striking even early because 1) heroic strikes costs 3 more, and 2) all my other abilities cost 3 more as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitaniumGene View Post
    Lately, I've been noticing that 15/5/51 has been a popular warrior prot spec.

    WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator

    This spec comes with the loss of 3% block. I was wondering why not relocate the 3/3 focused rage into the rest of shield specialization??

    -3 rage/offensive ability seems like a good tradeoff for more block since tanks tend to gain a near endless supply of rage when the boss keeps hitting you.
    If you look at my spec, i dropped puncture first and then dropped focus rage shortly after.

    Unfortantely, most warriors are still living in yesterday believing block is something that is not as important. I would argue that since the change of our shield block ability (and the simple fact we actually carry a shield), blocking is as important, if not MORE important than Dodge/Parry.

    There are more than one post about "diminishing returns" on avoidance stats. Pt for Pt, you get more bang for your buck out of block than you do Dodge/Parry. It has been my personal goal to try to get Dodge=Parry and hover around 20-22%. Currently my block is around 33%.

    If you look in the protection tree there are a lot of deep talents that go hand in hand with blocking...besides, i'm one of those guys that thinks along with having a good block %, that SBV should be useful for something other than ZOMG BIG NUMBERS slams.

    =)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    At beginning of fights when threat is most sensitive.

    When I'm queuing up heroic strikes and I reach <50 rage on lots of bosses (really the only true unlimited rage situation that I've encountered is thaddius because of the constant damage he puts out. Most other bosses have chances where you'll have to stop heroic striking due to a few avoidance streaks or just them not hitting very hard.
    If you're having trouble at the beginning of fights, i would ask you:

    Are you using blood rage? do you use the blood rage glyph?
    Are you using zerk rage right behind blood rage?

    I use the Minor Glyph so I take zero damage - the Rage I get from Blood Rage followed by Zerk rage is more than enough to get a head start.

    So again...-3 rage is good, but it is by no means "that" required.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Show me a WWS of your raids where you have over 90% HS uptime without focused rage and I'll gladly shut up. Hey we're here to learn no reason to be confrontational but I personally find myself dropping below 50 rage on boss fights ALL the time and as such have to stop heroic striking. If i didn't have that -3 rage, I would've had to stop heroic striking even early because 1) heroic strikes costs 3 more, and 2) all my other abilities cost 3 more as well.
    There was no intent of confrontation, I simply asked a question.

    My #1 and #2 priority is simple - Shield Slam and Revenge

    What 3 Major Glyphs do the majority use:

    Blocking - Revenge (next HS free) - HS (rage return on crit)

    I maintain a "rotation" but really shouldn't we consider it more like a Enh Shaman in that it's a "priority" system more so a rotation? What I mean by that is, if a S&B procs...are you telling me you're gonna mix in 'x' ability instead of a Shield Slam? If you're using the Revenge Glyph don't you have it Macro'd in to instantly queue up HS?

    I use Heroic Strike immensely, simply because I have >50 Rage constantly...when i'm in 5 man/Trash i sub out HS for Cleave.

    Again, everyone has a playstyle. I'm a huge fan of HS spam...but I've yet to be in the situation where -3 additional rage is necessary. Having HS improved with HS glyph is more than sufficient.

  12. #32
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    I'm not saying I have trouble with them all the time, i'm saying that's when saving rage is most important.

    Yes I use blood rage, yes I charge in, yes I have the glyph, yes I use zerk.

    So what happens with ALL of that. when you do EVERYTHING to start it off right and your combat log says:
    Your Shield Slam was Parried by Boss!
    You Dodge Boss Attack
    Your revenge was Parried by Boss!
    You Dodge Boss attack
    You Parry Boss Attack
    ---Not enough Rage----

    so where did any of the scenario that you drew come into play.

    Blood rage taking no damage? glyph? nothing
    Using blood rage? all that rage went out the door already
    Zerk Rage? Doesn't help if i'm dodging.

    the 3 rage saved means I could've tossed in a heroic strike in there or a devastate. or at least it's 3 less seconds I have to wait for blood rage to tick before I can fire off another attack before he runs off and drops my healer.

    No one is saying Block is terrible, we all know this, but despite all of it's buffs and gains since 3.0 it is still not a primary stat we are looking to stack tons of at the expense of other gains. It is a secondary stat. Yes it's good to smooth out our damage with, yes you want gear that has SBR on it as well as other stats, but to say that it's BETTER than dodge/parry is silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Show me a WWS of your raids where you have over 90% HS uptime without focused rage and I'll gladly shut up. Hey we're here to learn no reason to be confrontational but I personally find myself dropping below 50 rage on boss fights ALL the time and as such have to stop heroic striking. If i didn't have that -3 rage, I would've had to stop heroic striking even early because 1) heroic strikes costs 3 more, and 2) all my other abilities cost 3 more as well.
    WWS Loading...


    Theres one parse thats close, its not an optimal fight, a saph kill, its 14% auto attacks 86% heroic strikes.

    Wow Web Stats

    is 9% auto attacks 91% heroic usage on patch 25 man.

    I will get you more parses showing it if you would like. Note i havent had focused rage for almost 2 months now

  14. #34
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    I could see not using it for bosses like patch or sapph, but really there are a lot more bosses in naxx where it will up your dps being able to constantly spam HS

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hengist View Post
    Rage isn't a problem on hard hitting bosses, but not all bosses are hitting hard... Don't tell me your rage bar is full on for example Heigan the Unclean?
    I run into the fire on purpose for more rage

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    I'm not saying I have trouble with them all the time, i'm saying that's when saving rage is most important.

    Yes I use blood rage, yes I charge in, yes I have the glyph, yes I use zerk.

    So what happens with ALL of that. when you do EVERYTHING to start it off right and your combat log says:
    Your Shield Slam was Parried by Boss!
    You Dodge Boss Attack
    Your revenge was Parried by Boss!
    You Dodge Boss attack
    You Parry Boss Attack
    ---Not enough Rage----

    so where did any of the scenario that you drew come into play.

    Blood rage taking no damage? glyph? nothing
    Using blood rage? all that rage went out the door already
    Zerk Rage? Doesn't help if i'm dodging.

    the 3 rage saved means I could've tossed in a heroic strike in there or a devastate. or at least it's 3 less seconds I have to wait for blood rage to tick before I can fire off another attack before he runs off and drops my healer.

    No one is saying Block is terrible, we all know this, but despite all of it's buffs and gains since 3.0 it is still not a primary stat we are looking to stack tons of at the expense of other gains. It is a secondary stat. Yes it's good to smooth out our damage with, yes you want gear that has SBR on it as well as other stats, but to say that it's BETTER than dodge/parry is silly.
    Now who is confrontational... ;-)

    I would argue if you got your block % higher and kept your parry/dodge equal and in the low 20s...you might see what i'm talking about. =)

    I don't hate dodge/parry...I just think most tanks over-prioritize dodge/parry and do so by neglecting block. Yesterdays thinking in todays wow, if you ask me. In vanilla wow and tbc wow...no one even monkied with block rating. why? because we simply leaned on the shield block key and kept it off cooldown. Stacking block when you were already blocking...now that is silly. However, we live in wotlk WoW now...we can't lean on our shield block key. Block rating has never been more important than it is now...yet, most warriors are still gearing like it's classic/tbc.

    Again, I point to the other threads on this site that show diminishing returns on avoidance stats. Point for Point, you get more bang for your buck with blocking. Again, I want to emphasize...i'm not saying parry/dodge is junk...but if you stack them and prioritize them over block you may be short changing yourself.

    It's subject to interpretation, no doubt. I asked a question, when is rage an issue. The reply was at the start of fights. My reply was the use of bloodrage and zerk rage.

    I've never had an issue with rage: Start>Middle>End of a fight and I have never had an issue keeping Heroic Strike queued up.

    That said, I wish i could say I keep it up as much as the poster above me has illustrated. I am too old and too slow to keep up that much...that dag gum auto swing sneaks in on me here and there. ;-)

    *Fwiw - if you notice both Lizana and myself (both suggesting Focussed Rage is not necessary) have parry/dodge lower than our blocking. Perhaps ones rage issues might go further than simply -3 from focussed rage. At the same time, I also know you wear the gear that you have.
    Last edited by Canariensis; 01-23-2009 at 12:12 PM.

  17. #37
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    The problem is that, while block is useful, it's not the same thing as dodge/parry/"missed". Oh, sure, on 5-man trash or normal mobs, it's quite similar. But on a boss - you know, the things you need a tank for, not just a plate-wearer - an avoided attack is many thousands of HP still in your bar, while a blocked attack is merely 1000-2000 still there. (Well, let's not denigrate critical blocks - they're nice but RNG-dependent.)

    On the other hand, when we look at the highest-end boss fights in 25-man content, where heals are landing on the tank whether they take damage or not, then obviously avoidance becomes less valuable than effective health. That discussion's been had; it's just not as important in LK because there's very few boss fights with incoming damage at that level, so far.

  18. #38
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    I already rage starve a little on Noth at least, I wouldn't want to see what happens without focused rage.

    On the heroic strike issue, it is really hard (and I'll say it, kind of annoying) to get that heroic strike off on every single cooldown while managing everything else. I've gotten myself up to about 2/3 heroic 1/3 white swings, but it is getting kind of frustrating. Would be nice to see some kind of change to that mechanic to free my fingers up a bit. :P

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    that's where you're confused friend. Heroic strike is independent of the GCD, so you can do ALL of that. AND still queue up heroic strikes. do this THEN tell me if Focused Rage doesn't affect your rage.
    Macro Devastate, SS, Conc. Blow and Revenge WITH heroic strike, so you don't have to remember to spam. Just faceroll your way to glory.

  20. #40
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    and if you have rage issues at one point auto-queuing those heroic strikes will force you into missing a more important move so I'd advise against this, but I guess your point about trying to get heroic strikes to land constantly, I bind it to mouse wheel up and just roll my way to victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
    I will never be a kaz.. no one can reach the utter awesomeness of you.
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