Little Big Article

[Compa]

So, I'm not the maintank of my guild but I love to tank and to research about tanking things. Yesterday (and today) I wrote a little article on my guilds forum and I made emphasis that what I wrote should not be taken as a rule of thumb (tho in certain point I say "this is mandatory")

Basically, I was wondering if some of you could read and review the article. I don't want to mislead my guildies but I do want to give an easy guide that can help them specially if they are kinda lost. (One of the tanks has like 67 points in prot tree which I find kinda useless)
so this is the Article

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Well, the objective of this thread is to share my experience as a tank with other Warr-Tanks or soon to be to be Warr-Tanks. My objective is not to say "This must be your build" or "you have to tank like this" but to give advise. In other words, this is not a guide but a series of advises based on my own experiences. You can find a lot of great guides at http://www.tankspot.com but I thought this could be helpful due to the fact I'm a guy inside your ranks so you can always, ALWAYS ask me about anything concerning a warrior tank or about my own build/macros/rotation. Any doubt not covered here or anything you want to argue I'm all open ears and open mind.

It doesn't matter if you're leveling, doing heroics, raiding, casual raiding... etc. This guide was built with the sole objective of discussing the prot warr and hopefully share opinions on talents, glyphs, stats and whatever derives from this.
One more thing before we start: Remember this, The more effective you are as a tank, the more you enjoy the role and the game. Read the fights, talk to your party, work with them, be polite at all times and remember, in the end is all about having fun with the game. When you log in is because you want to do it, not because you have to

So, Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this evening's presentation! Tonight we'll review the dread composition of Compa's current build and not too soon we'll learn that not everything that shines is an epic loot. And now: On with the show!

Warrior Prot Talents
The first thing that defines a prot warrior is his choice of talents. more than 32 points on the prot talent and you're considered a "Protection Warrior". Now we cannot just fill the tree with random talents. We have to wisely choose our talents and see which ones are useful. First of all, the min amount of talents should be 51. Yes, I know I said I do not want this to be a mandatory thing but in this case Shockwave is a MUST. Threatwise and AoE-tanking wise.
I'm pretty sure you already know that so I won't go deeper on this.
Now, you still have 20 talents to spend. Ohhh talents talents /drool *Compa covers himself with chocolate syrup* .... err... back on topic, This 20 talent points is practically what defines you.
For me, this is the first 53 talent composition (yes I said 53 instead of 51): 0/0/53 (Click Me!)

Observations on the Talent Points in this build
As you can see, I left some talents empty and picked some that might not be seen as useful, now, why is that?

Improved Blood Rage
Yes it is nice to start a fight with a nice rage pool but if you charge at the start and cast normal blood rage then you're going to have a good start anyways so why spend some talents there when you can use them wisely somewhere else. The utility is marginal IMHO.

Improved Spell Reflect
AoE from bosses is da poop! but tbh, our main job is to hold the boss while the DPS drills another hole on his (or her?) butt. While this talent could prove to be pretty nice help for the healers, the work done with the AoE-Heals has been improved enough to skip this talent and anyways, topped, this talent only covers 5 members. How many tanks would you need to cover the entire raid? Answer: 1 on each grou = 5 tanks = 4 less DPS. If you ask me that's not a good deal. Another drawback is that there are plenty of AoE spells that are not reflectable... SUCKS!

Improved Revenge
Since Patch3.0, Warriors have suffered a considerable change. Threat is not as hard to attain as it was before (still is tricky when a turbo-n00b mage opens with pom-pyro but usually I let them die victims of their own stupidity... Iwhisper the healer "Let him die" and enjoy the show) but in the end, threat is no longer and issue (Except on VERY exceptional fights where DPS recieves an über extreme buff. You can find the refference to this somewhere in Tankspot).
So what's up with this talent... well since threat is a bit easier to get, we can spend points to improve our DPS abilities and by doing that we're helping the group not only as a tank but also as a tiny DPS thing. The funny thing is that in the end it helps to build threat. As for now I'm doing revenges of 1200, not too high but that translates in like 1500 threat. Without this talent the threat would be smaller.

Improved Disarm
I would recommend you not to use it since it can be a waste of rage and a threat loss. The reason: not every boss wields a weaopo and some of the ones who do wield a weapon are immune to that... so, you lose threat by choosing that talent over revenge and you lose rage by using it on a boss that can't be disarmed.

Puncture
Right now, under normal tanking circumstances and with a decent rotation, rage is not an issue. The rage reduction here is not a big deal. When I'm tanking I rarely am out of rage, can't really tell why but is just a fact. The Glyph of Revenge is part of the reason. This glyph is a must but I'll discuss later on the Glyph section.

Improved Disciplines
Well... a trade of survival for threat/DPS. Personally I wouldn't take it 'cause even if threat is not an issue... I would rather deal a bit more DPS. Again the healers/tanks synergy is great but it is up to you if you wanna make that trade. Is not bad but I wouldn't do it.

Concussion Blow
Your first comment could be "Wait, most instance bosses are inmune to stun!" and I would reply: "Yes, indeed..." But something some ppl doesn't know about this talent is that even if the boss ins immune to to stun mechanics, the damage and threat dealt by the skill are always functional. Also, Concussive Blow's threat is higher than Devastate's threat so it's good to have it and use it instead of Dev whenever you can (specially if the boss already has 5 sunders)

Vigilance
IMO, it is not worthy. Threat is not an issue. you better spend that point on something else. You won't be taunting too often. Bosses are inmune to taunt. If a DPS steals agro from your current target you're undergeared or doing a not so optimal rotation.
Vigilance is (IMHO) overrated for now.


This covers what I think are the most "strange" points in my talent tree. as I said the least you can have is 51 points and if I had to remove 2 points from this tree they weould be taken from Shield Specialization

Now... the rest of the Talents. I'll try to be brief since this topic is getting as long as the Chinese Wall. Remember I used 53 instead of 51 talents in my prot tree so I'll work around with 18 talents. Some people uses 51 talents on prot and gives Arms 15 talents getting full Deep Wounds. That one is a VERY GOOD build. I would use it myself but I am too lazy to respec.
My current build is this: 12/6/53

Improved Heroic Strike
Rage is not an issue. Besides, as I already said, get the Glyph of Heroic Strike. I've seen some ppl using this instead of Iron Will and this is up to U. they are mostly bridge talents that help you get to Impale

Deflection
You're a tank aren't you? Nuff said

Improved Charge
You already have Warbringer hence this talent is a MUST. Synergy is perfect. Start every pull you can with charge and you'll get 25 rage from the start.

Iron Will
Bridge talent. you can trade it for Imp Hero strike so is up to you. I prefer this one.

Impale
Bonus damage from your criticals... wich means Bigger Shield Slams! more threat and BIG NUMBERS! :mrgreen:

Armored to the Teeth
From all the 3 specs, we are the ones who get the most benefit from this talent. I get a very nice amount of AP and that means bigger Revenges, Devastates, White damage... More threat. (Do you see why Threat is not an issue?)

Cruelty
A help on the threat department. More crits! I put 2 talents on it 'cause that's all I had but so far this combination has given me great results.

Macros
Although you can find a WIDE compendium of macros at the WoW Forums and TankSpot this macros I'm posting are the result of experience and the power of the Lazyness Goddess who always gives me the stregth to find a way to make the less effort possible and attain the same results (or a good aproximation).
Note: I do not call my macros like that but you can do it if you want to.

Macro #1: The Angry Beaver
The objective of this macro is to help you build a good amount of threat at the very beginning of the fight. this is very useful on almost every situation and you activate 2 skills on 1 click. Keep in mind that the result is even better if you have Improved charge, also this macro assumes you have Warbringer.

#Showtooltip Charge
/cast Charge
/cast Berserker Rage

25 rage at the start + the rage you get by being hit while Berserker Rage is on. I've had ocassions where I start the fight with 50 rage... isn't that just beautiful?

Macro #2: The Enduring Elephant
This is the Oh Shit! macro.
If there's somethin' strange in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call Last Standers!
If it's somethin' weird an it won't look good
Who ya gonna call Shield Wallers

/cast Last Stand
/cast Shield Wall

Right now, I have 22K health. 22K * 0.3 = 6,600. I pop it when I'm on 3K Health this means I have 9600 Health. Now, Shield Wall reduces the incoming damage in 50%... I will NOT be killed unless I spam the macro too late.
That is one little drawback, you have to spam it. This 'cause the global cooldown (1 second) so just spam it and save your life

Macro #3: The Grunting Albatross
I am assuming you have the Glyph of Revenge! if you don't then go buy it. NOW..... I'm still waiting ¬¬ ...... done?... ok lets move. Glyph of revenge gives you a free Heroic Strike right after you use revenge... so instead of clicking 2 spells why not just click 1 button?

/cast Revenge
/cast Heroic Strike

Their cooldowns will not collide 'cause Heroic strike is "on next melee attack" so it doesn't have a CD nor affects the global cooldown. It's pretty neat but be aware that you will NOT remove heroic strike from your bars. Sometimes revenge is not up but you need to dump rage so you will have to spam Heroic Strike. As I said, this will help you to use only 1 button instead of 2 and give you a bit easier time at tanking.

Macro #4: The Joyful Turtle
I'll let you find out what this macro does. Use it at your own risk
/dance
/cheer

Glyphs
We all know what glyphs are for but if you don't here is a small definition stolen from AllaKhazam: Glyphs allow players to enhance single abilities to perform differently... Major glyphs tend to impact the ability in a profound way... Minor glyphs have less of an impact on the ability. There is a wide range of Warrior glyphs but, as you can imagine, only some of them prove to be really useful to us Prot-Warriors. The selection I made for Compa are a mixture between the (imo) mandatory glyphs and what I thought would be the best but can be traded.

Major Glyphs
Glyph of Blocking (Mandatory)
Use: Increases your block value by 10% for 10 sec after using your Shield Slam ability.

Glyph of Revenge (Mandatory)
Use: After using Revenge, your next Heroic Strike costs no rage.

... of Rapid Charge || ... of Resonating Power || ... of Sunder Armor || ... of Devastate
Pick one of this 4, I am currently using the Glyph of Rapid Charge but I will replace it for the Glyph of Devastate

Minor Glyphs
Glyph of Bloodrage (Mandatory)
Use: Reduces the health cost of your Bloodrage ability by 50%. The health cost is going to be reduced to 100% at patch 3.0.8 (afaik)

... of Charge || ... of Battle || ... of Thunderclap
I have the Charge and Battle one... but Thunderclap seems interesting for AoE tanking (which is almost every case nowdays) I'll consider to replace the Battle one for the TC one

Mechanics
So, you have your talents, you have your macros, you have your skills.... but one thing is to have the tools and another is to know how to use them. Intuitively we all an tank, but eventually we all realize there are better ways to do things.
There is an optimal rotation... but IMO as long as you can hold agro without troubles you're ok but if you want to be more effective then Click Here!.
Some things you have to take in account:

On AoE Pulls: A Warrior Tank needs to be hit in order to build rage, he/she will still build rage through his damage but the amount gained through damage is way better. Having this in mind, I do not recommend to start an AoE Pull with Shockwave. Instead I would use the "Angry Beaver" macro, then I would Thunderclap AND after that I use Shockwave, why? Well pretty simple, this method ensures that I will be hit at least once by every mob in the pull and by the time they are stunned thanks to Shockwave you will have enough rage to Apply a Shield Slam to the main target. The healer will heal the received damage during the 4 sec stun.
Remember, this is what I do and you do not need to do it that way, I am just telling you what I do and why I do it that way.

Pulling Casters: w00t! we have Heroic Throw =) a lovely pulling skill and it works perfectly when the group has only one caster... but there are some times when the pulls have 2 casters. If you use this skill what will happen is that the first caster will be silenced and will run towards you (just as intended) but the second caster will stand still and attack you from afar. If you run he will chase you but will keep his distance and eventually the healer will agro him.
The solution here is to use the skill BUT you must run and hide behind a corner, this will break the line of sight and all the group will run towards you as a pack. DPS should NOT attack them until you use Thunderclao/Shockwave or you will lose agro and they might die. Same with the healer.

Plate and Spells: We do NOT mitigate spell damage through armor, Improved Defensive Stance give us a 6% spell damage reduction but that's less than the 5x% the plate armor gives us. We cannot dodge/parry/block that kind of damage either and that's why we have to kill the casters first. Physical damage is what we are tuned for but the casters can burn us (Remember the spell Mindflay in Shadow Labyrinth?) So remember: Kill the squishy first.

Synergy: (from the Greek syn-ergo, συνεργός meaning working together) is the term used to describe a situation where the final outcome of a system is greater than the sum of its parts. To optimize threat and damage you have to study how your skills interact with each other.
WarBringer + Improved Charge
Revenge + Glyph of Revenge + Heroic Strike
Charge + Berserker Rage
Shield Wall + Last Stand
Well you saw my macros and you saw the rotation of skills on TankSpot, you get the idea of synergy and why it is important.

So, that's all for now. I hope this helps you to have a better understanding of the Protection Warrior class and expands your knowledge. Nothing here is written on stone and I might be wrong on more than one point (talents, glyphs or macros) so please send me a message if you find anything odd.

Cheers and I'll see you behind my shield =)

P.D. There are no cookies, I ate them all

[holmedog]

It's good beginner knowledge. Most tanks should know this.

I would argue against your macroing shield wall and last stand. I almost exclusively use last stand + enraged regen, and shield wall on another cooldown. That gives me 2 Oh Sh*t buttons.

Also, revenge + heroic strike isn't the best macro, as you will queue up a lot of extra HS's when keyboard mashing. I know I do this, and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there, too.

You didn't mention Focused Rage, which I'm beginning to find is a lot more mandatory than I wish it was.

I would add a suggestion that you can use "The Angry Beaver" even when not charging, just to pop bloodrage, as there are still places where you need that rage now.

Again, great guide for a beginner.

[greendragonempire]

vig is a good skill imo. it is not mandatory but very help in fights with stage changes that spawn more adds. Adds usually make a beeline for healers or will get caught in aoe dps. the instant taunt refresh is very handy.

[Lizana]

Vigilance
IMO, it is not worthy. Threat is not an issue. you better spend that point on something else. You won't be taunting too often. Bosses are inmune to taunt. If a DPS steals agro from your current target you're undergeared or doing a not so optimal rotation.
Vigilance is (IMHO) overrated for now.

I dont take viglance to improve my threat, i use it to reduce yours and to give you extra surviablity (3%) extra on your off tank or main tank is a godsend) Consider how much Damage patch puts out even on 10 man, haveing a vigilanced off tank can save a big strain of your healers mana.

[Compa]

- Yes, I forgot to mention that about Angry Beaver. I use it myself in that way! :P
- I will make emphasis that the Last Stand+ShieldWall macro is my prefference and add your suggestion
- I will also clarify the use of the Revenge+HS macro.
- I didn't mention Focused Rage 'cause I too think is mandatory and should be a must

Thanx for the feedback. I'll fix it during lunch

EDIT:
- I'll change also what I wrote about vigilance. I just on't like the talent that much but you're right I'm deprecating it too much

[Satrina]

Overall, quite good. A few points

You're emphasising "more threat" in a lot of places, while saying "threat isn't an issue". A bit contradictory, but whatever. The big omission is that many of these are also more damage, which is an area that tanks are expected to contribute now. Many people seem to be stuck in the TBC mindset that tank is not damage. Guides that are aimed at beginners like this one should work to break that mindset.

One point in vigilance is far better than one point in cruelty
- Put it on a high dps for Malygos, make your life easier when stacking power sparks
- Put it on the Sartharion tank when leaving drakes up, make life a small bit easier for your healers
- Put it on the biggest AoE damage dealer when you're AoE tanking, because as a warrior threat IS an issue in AoE.

And so on. Lots of places vigilance is useful. Mandatory? I suppose not, but why wouldn't you take a talent with that much versatility?

I would never macro last stand and shield wall together
A hs+revenge macro is not a good one at all

And, I imagine it's really down to preference, but unless you PvP I can't imagine why you'd bother with iron will at all.

[Lizana]

Heres a better macro for your revenge/heroic strikes

#showtooltip Revenge
/castsequence reset=2 Revenge, !Heroic Strike

This means if you hit the button it will revenge, if it cant revenge, nothing happens, you tap it twice to do revenge and the que up heroic strike.

Now even if you only hit it once and you dont get the second hit in, 2 seconds later it will reset so your next hit gets you a revenge. This is easily spammable without worry about queing up extra heroic strikes

[Conreeaght]

Good quick-start guide.

Maybe it's just me that detests glyph of sunder, as I think it's more virtuous for a prot warrior to learn how to tab better then hit an ability that does no damage, uses the GCD, and total randomness where (and if) that sunder will end up.

But then again, that's just my opinion. Looks like it was very thoughtful and careful. Good work.

[Lizana]

Good quick-start guide.

Maybe it's just me that detests glyph of sunder, as I think it's more virtuous for a prot warrior to learn how to tab better then hit an ability that does no damage, uses the GCD, and total randomness where (and if) that sunder will end up.

But then again, that's just my opinion. Looks like it was very thoughtful and careful. Good work.

Devastate applies the sunder debuff with the glyph,

[Conreeaght]

Devastate applies the sunder debuff with the glyph,

Actually it applies 2 with the glyph

I guess I just assumed I was repeating myself about glyph of dev too much about 'same GCDs, same sunder apps, more directed, more controlled, more oppertunity, and does dps' placarding that I figured people were tired of the broken record.

[Lizana]

Actually it applies 2 with the glyph

I guess I just assumed I was repeating myself about glyph of dev too much about 'same GCDs, same sunder apps, more directed, more controlled, more oppertunity, and does dps' placarding that I figured people were tired of the broken record.

I am talking about the sunder armor glyph not the devastate glyph... if you devastate with a sunder armor glyph on, you will devastate your target and sunder a nearby mob

[Gadholm]

I would mention Gag Order as well. As I run into inexperienced tanks, its the number one talent they miss. How someone would not want +10% damage on their highest threat ability and the 3 second silence to pull casters I'll never know.

It also makes PvP that much more enjoyable.

[Compa]

Thanx for the feedback
I never thought about the points you mentioned Satrina since I haven't been there yet but I'll fix it soon.
I also see why you're saying I'm having contradictory statements, in a way I wanted to show why threat isn't an issue by showing how much threat the other spells do. I'll re-read the topic to write things in a more clear way n_n
About Iron will... I'm having a good amount of rage and I thought this would be useful on bosses that stun. Though maybe it is more a PvP talent and HS could provide more benefit.
In a way I forgot the point of the change "more DPS" hence Imp HS becomes Useful.
Devastate applies 2 sunders, I changed it 'cause the Devastate spell is used not too often due to the frequency Revenge and Shield Wall are up so I thought "this will help to apply the sunders way faster"
Gotta review the macros... for now I'll remove 2 of them and leave the Angry Beaver one (and the Joyful turtle)

Thanx again for the feedback. This is certainly giving me nice tips to tank too and I will certainly share this new knowlege.

[Berzerker]

About Iron will... I'm having a good amount of rage and I thought this would be useful on bosses that stun. Though maybe it is more a PvP talent and HS could provide more benefit.
In a way I forgot the point of the change "more DPS" hence Imp HS becomes Useful.

In my experience with Iron Will (minimal I must admit, though I am considering picking it up again, but for PVP), the stuns bosses hit you with do not generally get impacted. Either they are considered Incapacitates instead of stuns, they don't hit the MT, or they hit everyone, and while you're healers are stunned, you're being free is of minor advantage.

This of course based on my meager wrath raiding experience thus far.

Devastate applies 2 sunders, I changed it 'cause the Devastate spell is used not too often due to the frequency Revenge and Shield Wall are up so I thought "this will help to apply the sunders way faster"

You mean Shield Slam instead of Shield Wall (not to nitpick, just to clarify since it took me a minute to realize that), but with both on cooldown (5 sec revenge, 6 on SSlam), there are plenty of times to fire off that Devestate (and hope for the S&B proc), IMO. Not that I'm implying either glyph of devastate is bad, or that glyph of sunder is better. I just chalk it up to personal preference as to which situation you'd rather cater to.

[Tendo]

Looks like this guide is helping you learn to tank as much as your guildies! There are a few minor spelling errors you should catch upon review. Grammatically, it seems solid. The formatting is great and the icons really help bring the individual abilities/talents to the player's mind.

[Danielm7]

Just a minor point that I don't think anyone else pointed out... if you like the DW spec and went though all the trouble of writing the whole guide out for the other people, saying you are too lazy to respec for something you consider VERY GOOD seems off.

[Compa]

Thanx to both of you
Yes, it's helping a lot hehe =) I'll keep an eye on the grammatical errors.

On the Devastate topic, I replaced the Glyph of Rapid Charge for the Devastate Glyph. Sunder Glyph doesn't seem to be very interesting. I'll have to be more aware of my cooldowns, seems like I'm skipping some Devastates and yes, I meant Shield Slam instead of Shield Wall.

I'll respec today and I guess I will move a few points from one place to another (maybe I'll get Heroic Strike and also Deep Wounds) TY again for your valuable opinions n_n