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Thread: Is it my fault?

  1. #1
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    Is it my fault?

    Last evening I was in the mood for some good ol heroics (which is just like very night) So I join a Herioc VH. We get to the secound boss (we got that water lord thing) and she kept killing me..and killing me..and killing me. We ended up calling it. So I join a heroic pinn thinking maybe that stupid sword will drop this time.... We get to Mr. The Ruthless and he mops the floor with us. After two wipes the druid (who had brought his mage but switched) announces "I kick tank" ...so I was like "Wtf? why?" and then he started going off about my gear and how it was abit low for heroics and the healer was using to much mana keeping me up then started listing his stats on his bear tanking. After that the group sort of fell apart and I was once again left swordless in seattle.....well..swordless 45 minutes south of seattle...

    I honestly belive he is full of it, mainly because I was out dps'n his mage.
    But I figured it wouldn't hurt to check here and get some postive/ constructive feedback.

    The World of Warcraft Armory

    Thank you in advance
    Talani.

  2. #2
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    Your gear is better than mine was when I started doing heroics....water boss were you using the crystal defenses? Until you are very good, or have a very good healer, they make the water boss tolerable. And Pinnacle is possibly the most difficult heroic right now, so do not get bummed. Find a different healer, keep trying, don't get discouraged.

  3. #3
    Your gear is fine for heroics. It looks like it was just a case of people not wanting to deal with people who aren't over geared for the content.

  4. #4
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    If you have crap dps, boss has more time to damage on you and healer uses more mana to heal that extra damage.

    Your gear is good enough for hc, its just that many players expects they can slack bit because tanks usually "boost" them through. Healer might notice you to take alot damage, but that happens if you dont overgear the instance.

  5. #5
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    Your fine for most starting heroics, but why oh why all the stam enchants? Getting a couple of +def enchants would allow you to take off the level 70 blue trinket and at least put in another threat based trinket. And actually you would not even have to switch to def enchants to stay about the 540.

    Switch out your +stam to bracers for expertise, same for gloves. Switch out your weapon. Your a warrior that means 2.6 speed is too slow, plus that's a level 74 quest reward. Run normal halls of lightning pick up the sword there. Also while you are there you can try to get the +def trinket from the last boss.

    Otherwise your on the right track as far as gearing, but don't focus on just stam. Your HP pool will increase as you gear up to level 80 blues/crafted epics. Try to make sure your getting some of the gear from normal mode level 80 instances as well. Normal Occulus drops a nice belt upgrade for you

  6. #6
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    Don't get discouraged. Keep running instances, keep gearing up, etc. You live in a climate where a tanks gear is often the first thing that gets blamed in pickup groups when the group as a whole is doing badly.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    but why oh why all the stam enchants?

    Also while you are there you can try to get the +def trinket from the last boss.

    I have a friend who gave me a relaly good deal on them, I am abit poor but I will see if I can pull some strings and get those enchants.

    If there was ever a thing about my gear I hate its my trinkets. They suck, I have been shooting for the one that drops in heroic AN ..with the bubble and 111 stam and also the one that drops in normal pinn I think? Half my problum is I am very unlucky when it comes to things dropping.

    Quote Originally Posted by kolben View Post
    Don't get discouraged. Keep running instances, keep gearing up, etc. You live in a climate where a tanks gear is often the first thing that gets blamed in pickup groups when the group as a whole is doing badly.
    I try not to but I guess I am abit senstive about my gear and tanking. Also I am way to nice to yell at people for slacking...I need to find some friends to do this stuff with and steer clear of the pugs I think, but getting them all on at once is easyer said then done.

  8. #8
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    The only criticism I have is you have a slow weapon, although some folks seem to like them for warrior tanking these days, thanks to deep wounds damage (and maybe other factors). But, honestly, if you are doing more DPS than your DPS classes, it just makes the heroic that much harder.

    There is a *huge* difference in difficulty depending on the quality of your DPS. Less time on adds, less time on bosses, etc. An undergeared tank can be an issue, but if the DPS is worthless, it won't matter, you'll eventually wear out (unless the tank and healer just completely outgear the instance).

    Probably just a bad night.

  9. #9
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    Is this trinket worth going after ya think?

    Essence of Gossamer - Item - World of Warcraft

  10. #10
    Eh 2.6 weapon is fine. Even without Deep Wounds. A 1.6 weapon isn't going to make him take less damage or (as one poster seemed to suggest) make the dps in his group work harder.

    Your gear is about where mine was (if not better than) when I started heroics, so you are more than fine. Sometimes you get a bad group, and when that happens the blame usually goes to the tank or the healer, whichever has less gear or is less of a jerk. My only advise is to keep going for it, shrug off the bad groups and do everything you can to improve yourself in the process. Like some other people were saying, try replacing that 2nd trinket for something that fills in a weak spot of yours.

    If people are pulling hate off of you, work on your threat rotations. You shouldn't be having any problems with rage at that gear level, so be sure to burn everything you have and toss vig on the guy pulling aggro :P

    Skadi is a pain for groups who can't work together. I've had to toss aside several Red Sword runs at Skadi because the DPS i picked up in LFG couldnt cut it. And I was running with a pocket healer who knows what she is doing! If they are not efficient at killing those waves, then it can take forever, burn healer mana and pretty much doom you in phase 2.

    Is it your fault? Maybe, I'll be honest. I wasn't there. But your gear seems fine, and if your threat gen on single and multiple targets is OK, and you are using your survivability cooldowns smartly, then just keep doing what you are doing and hope that the next group is better.

  11. #11
    EoG is a great stam trinket, I'd go for it!

    Also think about changing professions. Mining is great, I'd stick with that, but perhaps picking up jewlcrafting/blacksmithing will complement it and give you some extra gems/sockets to play with that will put you over the edge.

    I'd also look into farming for/buying the engineering tank gun. Its expensive, but you'll be using it for a very very long time most likely.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by frim View Post
    Eh 2.6 weapon is fine. Even without Deep Wounds. A 1.6 weapon isn't going to make him take less damage or (as one poster seemed to suggest) make the dps in his group work harder.
    .
    I disagree 100%. Eternally Folded Blade - Item - World of Warcraft (The fast weapon i told him to get) vs Crescent of Brooding Fury - Item - World of Warcraft ( the slow item he has). Not only will his threat increase, something you address later in your post, but omg yes it has more avoidance stats on it... Now for everyone out there, when you take a gear slot that has zero avoidance and replace it with an item with avoidance, by the magic of the game you will take less damage over time. And it is true that doing more tps doesnt mean your group does more dps, but it gives your group the ability to do more dps.

  13. #13
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    The key statement for me was that you're doing more DPS than a mage. Flat out unacceptable, especially if they're looking for someone to blame.

    Shrug that group off as a waste of time, place the idiot who was talking smack on your ignore list (and maybe the others as well), and keep on plugging along :_

    And imho, a faster sword is basically a must, if not mandatory, for Prot Warriors.

  14. #14
    My point wasn't that he needs to keep this slow weapon until the end of days. My point was that his sword wont make that bad mage do better dps and it's not causing all his problems right now. Upgrades are good! So keep an eye out for them. But its not as if he needs to go back to regular 80 instances until he gets a 1.6 weapon.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by frim View Post
    My point wasn't that he needs to keep this slow weapon until the end of days. My point was that his sword wont make that bad mage do better dps and it's not causing all his problems right now. Upgrades are good! So keep an eye out for them. But its not as if he needs to go back to regular 80 instances until he gets a 1.6 weapon.
    Nothing he can do short of hacking the mages account and playing the char himself can ensure the mage will play any better. He came here asking how he can improve himself. There is no way you can argue the threat improvements of a faster weapon over a slower weapon or argue the fact that useing a higher dps weapon causes more dps and more threat. Sometimes is about going beyond the first question and answering followup questions to better improve yourself and thereby your tanking

  16. #16
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    To answer your original question, it takes a group to fail. Not one individual with lower then desired gear. There are a very few minimums that you need to meet to be heroic ready and they can all be done in easy to acquire blue (and sometimes green) items. The rest is how you use your skills. Granted, things get difficult with someone in a 5 man not pulling their weight, you can still plan and conform your play to accommodate the weak point. Certainly there are some positions that are more noticeable when they are weak, but the best way to protect yourself from situations like that is to learn some common things about other classes. Typically when the tank is going down and is reasonably geared, people's gut reaction is that the healer is failing but that's not always the case. Look at the activities of the dps: Is there a hunter dishing out 3.6k, consistently going after multiple targets to pad his dps, and busting FD every time it's up? He's probably dropping threat to the healer who is getting interrupted or killed 30-40 yards away from the tank. There are many scenarios like this and the best protection you can afford yourself is to learn a little bit about the different classes and be more situationally aware of "bad situations."

    The fact that you are being self conscious about this is a good thing. If you see something in a group that you don't like after you learn some things, call it out. If the group doesn't change and you still get the vibe, drop group. It's not worth your time or effort to make yourself feel bad when it's not your issue. It's certainly not worth the rep bill. GL!
    Execute for show, tank for dough.

  17. #17
    First of all, to some of the above posters, he said he was trying to get a faster weapon out of UP. It's entirely possible with that axe. I think it's a bit superfluous to comment there.

    Gear is fine. To each their own on some liberties, but at least it's not like you're tanking in cloth.

    If you're outdpsing any class brought on as dps...they're probably going to undermine you or generally avoid taking on proper blame. I can only assume that your skills are >=adequate for the task.

    Ichiron or whatever it's name is - Is one of the worst ones to be a tank for. Because you are pretty much helpless. It's a healer dependant fight (due to the waterbolts) and every time s/he explodes you go flying. Afterwards, you have to avoid all the little adds to which dps is responsable for. While it doesn't hurt to help out, it is just better to stay away in case the boss should accidentally contact them while you're trying to prevent that from happening. The DPS should have been using crystals. I still do and don't care who gripes about not getting the defenseless achievement. We get it almost every time as long as we don't get that boss. I think that's reasonable.

    In fact, one pug I did just to get an hVH done before I logged...I and my (guilded) healer pretty much did all the work on every fight. I had to tap my own crystals for that fight. It was kinda different having to position myself so I'd get knocked into one...but definately frustrating to have to do the bulk of the damage to EVERYTHING.

    As for Skadi the Ruthless. I do that fight as often as I can too (blue proto-drake) but I've gotten it down to a fine art with the same crew every time, and rarely...RARELY ever dare do a UP with pugs. when I started, we used to cheese the encounter with the harpoon farm/mass tank method, but now we run the event as normal. Even now and again we have a wipe due to skadi landing and beelining for the healer under this nasty instance lag that's been going on. However, again, pugging that fight has lead to nothing but poor results. No voice chatter makes it impossible to communicate what is going on, what pass the harpoons are going to be launched, and how likely it is for skadi to be landing - this doesn't even include the march up the hallway where it helps to know which side of the path Gryf is going to be strafeing by a simple "stay right" or "move left."

    That doesn't even include the fact that it doesn't get easier when he lands due to the possible 'last pair of adds being late in spawning,' and the erratic nature of his deadly (when not disarmed) whirlwind. (sure, the 'wait for him to move away, taunt, move away' strategy sounds cut and dry...)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizana View Post
    Your fine for most starting heroics, but why oh why all the stam enchants? Getting a couple of +def enchants would allow you to take off the level 70 blue trinket and at least put in another threat based trinket. And actually you would not even have to switch to def enchants to stay about the 540.
    Remember, you only need 535 for heroics!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tib View Post
    Remember, you only need 535 for heroics!
    Doesn't change the fact that taking off his def trinket keeps him above 540...

  20. #20
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    I would first like to say thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. Thank you!!!

    As for the axe, its mainly because nothing better has dropped for me and I thought it looked cool. I don't mind using a slow or fast weapon as long as its practical and looks nifty! I will pick something new and shiny up soon.

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