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Thread: holadins.

  1. #1
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    holadins.

    I wondered, Holadins is plate users. So if a clothie spellcaster or healer went to a instance together with a Paladin also looking for healer gear, wouldn't the chance for a useable item to drop, for the Paladin be 4 times higher than the clothie?

    And the same with Druids and Shamans. So the rate of getting Naxxramas ready gear and gear overall would be way faster for a Paladin than a Priest?

    Can anyone explain to my why it is like this?

    (and no im not whining because i don't get any loot.)

  2. #2
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    Actually, if you look at the loot lists, the plate gear doesn't drop as much, and there are some instances of the exact same stat items dropping - Leggings from 1st Nexus boss and VH final boss are exactly the stats.

  3. #3
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    It's not four times as much, but they do have a higher chance of seeing something that they can use. Some of the cloth and leather spellpower gear has spirit on it, which (Unless recently changed) is almost worthless to paladins. Also, there are some cloth dpsers that would yell at a paladin for taking possible upgrades from them.

  4. #4
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    Yeah but my point is, Paladins also use cloth, leather and mail. Clothies only using well cloth.

  5. #5
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    True, Paladins don't need spirit but alot dps (spellcaster) cloth even epics have no spirit stats.

    (As far as i remember)

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushebti View Post
    Yeah but my point is, Paladins also use cloth, leather and mail. Clothies only using well cloth.
    While a paladin *can* use cloth or leather, it would result in me sitting them if they showed up in it. Plate is itemized for Paladins, Mail works for them, Leather and Cloth are not -- if the paladins are heisting cloth gear there are significant issues that need to be addressed here.

    Healers share rings, ammys, cloaks, main hand weapons, trinkets, etc... the only items that really differ are Helm, Chest, Legs, Gloves, etc... and those are typically tailor made for said class, so they won't be a good option for the other to pick up.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
    While a paladin *can* use cloth or leather, it would result in me sitting them if they showed up in it. Plate is itemized for Paladins, Mail works for them, Leather and Cloth are not -- if the paladins are heisting cloth gear there are significant issues that need to be addressed here.

    Healers share rings, ammys, cloaks, main hand weapons, trinkets, etc... the only items that really differ are Helm, Chest, Legs, Gloves, etc... and those are typically tailor made for said class, so they won't be a good option for the other to pick up.
    Yeah i see, though i've seen Paladin healers with cloth items,
    But thanks this have cleared it a bit for me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushebti View Post
    Yeah i see, though i've seen Paladin healers with cloth items,
    But thanks this have cleared it a bit for me.
    It always makes me cringe when I see a holy paladin in clothie gear, like the one I saw wearing 25 man Naxx cloth legs. A lot of paladins see just huge spellpower and such when they take a cloth piece, however, they miss the whole point in being a paladin, which is to wear the armor with the high armor values (I.E., plate items), so as to offer a bit more suvivability. Taking an mail piece can be acceptable sometimes depending on the item, but for me, I try to avoid even taking mail and just going plate all the way, because if I wanted someone who was going to wear cloth, I would have made an actual clothie.

  10. #10
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    Paladins may have four times the armor options of cloth wearers, but by using those same guidelines they have just as much competition. Frankly, if Blizzard didn't want Paladins to wear cloth, Paladins would have armor restrictions. Conversely, if the game designers wanted Priests to wear plate...

    Regardless, Wrath created more competetion over cloth gear, for example clothie DPS now competes with Priests (even on, to some extent, +hit items). The best thing you can do to address this is to make sure a group has clear guidelines on how loot will be distributed. So if you don't want that holy Pally to roll/bid against other classes for that cloth/leather/mail gear, you'd best make it clear.
    [Insert witty signature here]

  11. #11
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    The point of a holy spec'd paladin is to heal, armor affects healing ability not at all. As such, I'll wear the best gear I can get for that task, if it happens to be cloth, so be it. This doesn't mean all cloth is good for me, but some of it is (ie: a piece of armor with Int / Spell Power / Crit, no spirit, no hit). I agree that plate is preferable, but random loot is random, may not always see the drops you want.

    As for survivability, that has more to do with Divine Shield and innately low healing threat then it does armor.

  12. #12
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    A 12 second shield every 5 minutes and low threat generation are part of survivability, yes. However, you cannot always rely on those two things in order to save yourself a run. Wearing plate armor ensures that a paladin is able to take an extra hit or so more than a clothie.

    Anyone advocating that a paladin should be able to take whatever comes their way just seems to be a loot hoarder, and I don't know of too many people who would want to group up with a paladin who is going to sit there and try to justify why every single item with spellpower on it is a valid item. Yes, loot is random when it drops, but someone wanting to be the best geared and wear the type of armor most suited to them is going to end up farming at some point. If tanks can end up farming a particular heroic instance for weeks on end for just that one drop (yes, I've seen tanks not have their item drop in one instance for weeks), then how hard is it for a paladin to work on getting their particular plate items instead of going for whatever?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by qygibo View Post
    It always makes me cringe when I see a holy paladin in clothie gear, like the one I saw wearing 25 man Naxx cloth legs. A lot of paladins see just huge spellpower and such when they take a cloth piece, however, they miss the whole point in being a paladin, which is to wear the armor with the high armor values (I.E., plate items), so as to offer a bit more suvivability. Taking an mail piece can be acceptable sometimes depending on the item, but for me, I try to avoid even taking mail and just going plate all the way, because if I wanted someone who was going to wear cloth, I would have made an actual clothie.
    Armor has absolutely nothing to do with raiding. If you are taking non magical damage in raid you are either going to bubble or you are going to die just as fast as the priest. I can not think of one situation in any pve encounter in the game where armor has made the difference between dieing and not dieing.

    That being said I am willing to bet that the vast majority(90%+) of paladins wearing cloth got it because no one else needed it. If you are in a raiding situation where a cloth items drops that is not needed by any cloth wearers and would increase your healing effectiveness and you pass on it because it is not plate you are hurting the raid and making a mistake. I am not advocating cloth but to avoid it simply because it is not plate is a big mistake that only hurts yourself.

  14. #14
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    Why would a pally wear cloth when they can wear plate? I could understand if no body wanted the piece of gear taking it to try to up there spell power but the itemization would be incorrect. If a pally is rolling against cloth or leather wearers, in my opinion, they are wrong. They are taking an upgrade from a person that would potentially use the gear for awhile just so they can replace it next run when the plate drops for them. In my opinion, if you see a pally healer wearing cloth or leather gloves instead of the T7 go ahead and give him the kick. Reason being, those gloves are potentially the first piece of pally healer plate to be bought with emblems and if the pally is using a piece of epic cloth from Naxx instead of them its most likely by choice and who knows what other stupid decisions will come out of them during a raid.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwarvenTankard View Post
    Why would a pally wear cloth when they can wear plate? I could understand if no body wanted the piece of gear taking it to try to up there spell power but the itemization would be incorrect. If a pally is rolling against cloth or leather wearers, in my opinion, they are wrong. They are taking an upgrade from a person that would potentially use the gear for awhile just so they can replace it next run when the plate drops for them. In my opinion, if you see a pally healer wearing cloth or leather gloves instead of the T7 go ahead and give him the kick. Reason being, those gloves are potentially the first piece of pally healer plate to be bought with emblems and if the pally is using a piece of epic cloth from Naxx instead of them its most likely by choice and who knows what other stupid decisions will come out of them during a raid.
    1) First piece of gear a holy paladin should buy form badges is the libram.

    2) Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft This compares tier 7.0 gloves to three different cloth/mail options that could be used legitimately in its place though in this case the tier glvoes are very well budgeted so I would use them over the other three. However if I did not have the gloves yet you can bet I would take any of those three in the meantime if they were available. Why would I let them disenchant one of those if I did not have the tier piece yet? This is not even a great comparison as the plate piece in question is easy to get and budgeted perfectly. Other slots will come out in favor of cloth/mail.

    I am not recommending using cloth/mail over plate but there is down downside raiding wise to doing so. If a potential upgrade drops and priests/druids/shamans don't need it in the raid you should take it. I got very lucky with drops so I never wore cloth but I wore several pieces of heroic nax mail the last of which I replaced on Tuesday.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meeks View Post
    Armor has absolutely nothing to do with raiding. If you are taking non magical damage in raid you are either going to bubble or you are going to die just as fast as the priest. I can not think of one situation in any pve encounter in the game where armor has made the difference between dieing and not dieing.
    I would disagree. There are quite a few examples where armor can make the difference between living and dying in a heroic or a raid situation, such as the zombies from Gluth, Noth, or Gothik if a healer happens to grab aggro, whether by accident or by design (I mean, as a holy paladin I go up there to do dps even, and I'm sure that others do as well... I'd hope).

  17. #17
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    Blizzard designs the encounters so all healers and dps can survive any AoE, including cloth, leather, mail and plate classes. So if a better item drops for a pally that is cloth, take it (granted no cloth only class needs it ofc) - it will enhance your healing, which is your first prioty.

    The reason for this is there is plenty of cloth out there with Int, SP and Crit, which is exactly the stats a holy paladin want.

    You shouldn't pick your gear based on a possibility that you will get aggro.
    Last edited by hvidgaard; 01-16-2009 at 06:55 AM.

  18. #18
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    Then I would have to suspect that I am the holy paladin out there who actually uses judgments and such as intended. I regularly go up to trash or to a boss in order to whack at it when healing is fine for a few seconds or when I need a bit of mana, by keeping Seal of Wisdom up.. also helps with healing when I go to judge Light on the mobs. It isn't just me, is it, that uses all of the abilities Blizzard gave me?

    The thing about paladins is that we aren't just healbots. Holy paladins are designed to be able to go up and beat on the mob a bit, depending on what the situation is, and wearing plate armor certainly helps to mitigate whatever physical damage a holy paladin would probably get.

  19. #19
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    Your primarily job is healing right? If you get aggro from doing your judgements on the bosses as well, which every even remotely decent holy paladin should do if needed, your tanks fail - very simple.

  20. #20
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    No, it doesn't mean that it's an auto fail on the tanks, because it depends on the mob that is being judged. For instance, in the Gothik fight, I'm usually right up there dpsing and throwing up heals, and sometimes I draw aggro from where I've judged something that the tank didn't hit. Not every situation is going to be cut so dried that if I draw aggro it's automatically the tank's fault--I use the fact that I'm wearing paladin plate gear to my advantage because I can stand to take a hit or three.

    And judgments aren't something that are done as needed--any holy paladin should be throwing up a judgment of light as a matter of course as something that helps a bit with heals, or a judgment of justice if a mob is a runner, or a judgment of wisdom if a pally tank needs it and they're not throwing it already, and so on.

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