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Thread: Frost Tank Spec 3.0.8

  1. #61
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    I have tried a 2h frost build in heroic's the last days. i'm using KM and HB instead of obl. Atm my frost strike/icy tuch/HB have about 35-40% crit chance and my base crit is 8% so KM is quite awsome. I'm not that familiar with frost tanking and my spec/rotation is prolly a bit of, but aoe/single target threat is very good and my dps is about 1800-2k in a random heroic.

    As a sidenot i must say frost tanking is actually a little more fun then just dropping DnD and going afk. Also getting 42k armor with unbreakable armor is fun, armor cap inc

    *edit
    Inaara are you sure RS dont proc KM? I have not checked it myself tbh, but i have 65% avoidance and KM procs alot for me.

    *edit2
    The tooltip says any mele attacks can proc KM so that would include alot more then just white swings?
    Last edited by nips; 01-25-2009 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #62
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    I believe KM procs on any melee swing/special, especially since it's been put to main hand only.

    Truthfully, the KM current state is heartbreaking for me, in one major respect: It no longer benefits dual wielding. It was the one shining talent that could be really beautiful for a dual wielder, but now it's no better for that than a 2-hander.

    The silver lining is that it is now a great buff for tanks since it is not gear dependent, and it is, even in tanking gear it seems to be worth about a 20-30% increase in the functional crit rate of HB, FS, and IT, depending on how you use it/them.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  3. #63
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    I've been playing around with KM the last several night as I've been tanking and I've been loving it. I love giving the DPS in raids a fit when they see the overall damage numbers and its: Warlock, Hat Rogue, Frost Tank, Them.

  4. #64
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    It's a bit out of the subject but still about frost tank:

    First frost is my favorite playstyle; however, I have the feeling that it doesnt have much advantage over the others at the moment.

    For avoidance, frost got 3% miss over the others trees; but with the current content, I got more and more the feeling than the overall damage doesnt really matter cause healer have rarely any mana trouble. What matter most imo, is 1) that damage are as much constant as possible and 2), even more important imo, the ability to take some heavy hit, once in a while.
    For constant damage I think that unholy is better, with there 6 bones BS.
    And for Heavy hit, I guess blood is the best, with WoTN, more stam and Vampiric blood.

    For threat, unholy is better for AOE, frost isnt too far for AOE but AOE is not really a main concern imo.
    And for single target, I think, blood is far ahead.


    So, what you think, is there any reason left to play frost, exept for the playstyle?


    Fea

  5. #65
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    Honestly, it's all play style and personal skill/experience.

    I've played all three out, and I generally do best with unholy just because that's what I have the most experience with (that and it takes me about 4-5 hours of run time to adjust play style most of the way).

    Frost is every bit as hearty and threatening as Blood or Unholy, it's just a matter of how you do it.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post

    So, what you think, is there any reason left to play frost, exept for the playstyle?


    Fea
    The Joy of hearing every other raid member besides other frost DKs saying Howling blast needs to be nerfed again?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by xKhellendrosx View Post
    The Joy of hearing every other raid member besides other frost DKs saying Howling blast needs to be nerfed again?

    SShhhhhh! I hope not.

    LK
    "serious walnut- crunching ass power" from: Merry Christmas, Bob, By Chris Shugart

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keza View Post
    SShhhhhh! I hope not.

    LK
    I hear this all the time while in Naxx, just because with KM I'm usually able to keep a 60% crit rate on the spell.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by xKhellendrosx View Post
    The Joy of hearing every other raid member besides other frost DKs saying Howling blast needs to be nerfed again?
    Ok but you are talking about trash (or AOE) there right?

  10. #70
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    The spec I tank with, that i dearly love is: This One

    I'll explain a bit of my reasoning. First, the blood talents. Bladed armor used to have 5, until the patch lowered the hungering cold RP cost, so i moved a point out of there.

    Frost stuff- I went all the way up to icy talons, primarily for group utility. I often run with an enh shaman, and almost always raid with one.. but they usually dont bother wasting their mana on WF, cause Imp Icy is always up.

    I didnt have killing machine pre patch, and didnt pick it up post patch, either. Its somethign thatis open for possible testing, but i'd probably have to dump the icy talons line for it. I just dont feel that it would be THAT big a deal as it is. If i'm wrong, by all means.. correct me

    About frost aura: This is, IMO, one of the most underrated and underestimated talents ever. It's just awesome. I find that it provides a lot of mitigation through its resist in Heroics, and even on Raid trash. Let's face it.. if we need a big resist for a boss fight.. the shaman or paladins will be doing the totems/auras. For everything else.. I love it.

    Hungering cold: An old point of contention due to its high RP cost. I liked the ability when i tried it in beta.. but its prohibitive cost kind of pushed it out in live. Now that the cost is lower.. its not bad. I dont use it terribly often, but its there, and i like having toys to play with. I will say, though.. it has been a HUGE boon on sarth when we're trying to deal with tenebrons whelps (we dont go in the portal.. we just kill the whelps). I stand right by the portal, drop DND, hit Hungering cold (which gets broken.. but puts FF on all the whelps) and slam them all with a HB. MY MOBS! MINE!

    I think the unhly stuff is self explanatory.. i used to not run morbidity, but then i ran into a few problems.. so i shifted points out of blood and into it. Ill never run without it, as a tank, again.

    My Armory - however, as of this posting (1/31/09-610am EST) I'm currently in DPS gear and spec. But that changes a minimum of 4 times a week or so. But the important part is my weapon: Currently Death's Bite with Stoneskin Garg on it.

    My rotation: ps-it-bs(pest on multi)-bs-hb-ob -dump into FS(if rune strike hasnt made that impossible) -> ob-ob-ob and sometimes, depending on timing, i can get a 4th oblit in there. As you can see.. i use oblit a LOT.. and i use the glyph, so it hits hard.. and i never really have any threat issues.

    That said.. comments, advice, suggestions, mindless flames?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzy165 View Post
    I didnt have killing machine pre patch, and didnt pick it up post patch, either. Its somethign thatis open for possible testing, but i'd probably have to dump the icy talons line for it. I just dont feel that it would be THAT big a deal as it is. If i'm wrong, by all means.. correct me
    You are Seriously, KM is a big threat talents now, either for HB or FS, it increase their crit rate from your base crit (10% for me) to 50-60%.
    Especially if you are running with a enh shaman I see no reason to not take it over icy talons.


    About frost aura: This is, IMO, one of the most underrated and underestimated talents ever. It's just awesome. I find that it provides a lot of mitigation through its resist in Heroics, and even on Raid trash. Let's face it.. if we need a big resist for a boss fight.. the shaman or paladins will be doing the totems/auras. For everything else.. I love it.
    Exept that if you have any druid heal it's 5 points more than their Gift of the wild (26 more if you got a druid without the improved GotW). And as you said, when resist does matter, you got the shaman and pal. The two make it very situationnal, and a waste of 2 points imo.


    I think the unhly stuff is self explanatory.. i used to not run morbidity, but then i ran into a few problems.. so i shifted points out of blood and into it. Ill never run without it, as a tank, again.
    Well I personnaly dont have trouble for AOE without it, and anyway aoe isnt a major concern imo (or rarely). And in a single target rotation, I did the math to compare one with DnD and the one I use and DnD wasnt better for threat.


    One last thing, you got Epidemic; I used to have it then I tried a short rotation and I dont see any reason to take it anymore (as frost). My (single) rotation is: IT/OB/OB/BS and repeat (and FS as Rp dump of course). The advantage is that it's easy to correct a mistake or a dodge/parry/miss, to change the order if needed, to keep Blade Barrier up, etc. Damage wise I think 2 IT make more damage than one IT and one PS, with the frost talents and it should even compensate for the lost of one disease on OB (and BS) (I will try to make the math for it later).

  12. #72
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    I usually do the same thing Feanorr, I move Epidemic points elsewhere with Frost simply because I reapply often (and I'm a big fan of disease juggling, now that we can again!), though I know Merko loves it.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #73
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    What is "disease juggling"?

  14. #74
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    Disease juggling is a term for DK tanks that came in 3.08, it allowed us to disease a target and pestilence, after the first pestilence it allowed us to spread the diseases or refresh the other targets diseases, so the idea was instead of wasting a frost and unholy and a pestilence you could just use the pestilence and target something else and use pestilence again to refresh the entire groups diseases.

  15. #75
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    I'm tweaking my spec a little based on yall's comments in this thread, and wanted to see what you thought.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    What I like about this build is that you get good tanking goodies, a crazy crit rate on Frost spells, all the basic avoidance stuff, and good crit rate on Oblit.

    I would use the IT-OB-OB-BS rotation with this spec.

    There is one point left to allocate, and I'm at a loss where to drop it. Deathchill is mostly useless with KM's proc rate. Hungering Cold is meh, Rune Tap seems ok. I could also go with 1% crit.

  16. #76
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    That's very close to what i'm running.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    But i'm using 2H Spec vs Subversion, based off EJ comments that 2H Spec > Subversion even for OB spamming.

    I would use the IT-OB-OB-BS rotation with this spec.
    What's using KM if you're not using HB? Your RP should be eaten by RS, not leaving much for FS. Are you always running w/ Blessing of Sanctuary?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroborous View Post
    Disease juggling is a term for DK tanks that came in 3.08, it allowed us to disease a target and pestilence, after the first pestilence it allowed us to spread the diseases or refresh the other targets diseases, so the idea was instead of wasting a frost and unholy and a pestilence you could just use the pestilence and target something else and use pestilence again to refresh the entire groups diseases.
    Ok tks I didnt know the term; I did use it sometimes though.

  18. #78
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    I'm not MT most of the time so I don't burn all my RP on RS, so I can blow KM procs on FS. I do have the IT glyph for some extra RP gen.

    Thanks for the tweaks on the spec Taek, I had missed the comment about 2h Spec > Sub. Adding the RP from CotG can't hurt either.

  19. #79
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    Satorri is right... I have a hard on for epidemic... however I like to see people using disease juggling to free up those 2 points to grab KM and Imp Icy Talons in the same build. I'll be the first to admit I base my builds on having diverse 25 man raid buffs but very nice.

    Also, has anyone ran the numbers on IT, OBL, OBL, BS threat versus IT,PS,BS,BS, OBL spam rotations?
    Last edited by Merko; 02-03-2009 at 05:42 AM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    Ok but you are talking about trash (or AOE) there right?
    Generally you hear that from the other AoE when they look at the overall damage numbers on recount. Though if you dps as the 32/39 spec (main ability you use was HB)spec you hear it from just about every dps in the raid no matter what the situation.

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