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Thread: Frost Tank Spec 3.0.8

  1. #41
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    Hope this will be fixed soon.

    OB w/o any RP generate, I'm going to hang myself tonight...

  2. #42
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    Ouchie, that IS a painful glitch. I'm glad I'm a ScS junkie at the moment >.>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
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  3. #43
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    I'll see this tomnight but if I can't assume at least RS w/o blessing I'll go for SS and Unholy build I think.

    I've seen that the same may occur using Reinforce runic Weapon (is that the real name of this skill ???) which doesn't grant you any RP too. This is a minor concern but still can be annoying...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by copstack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    I did a few more test on PTR with the short rotation (IT/HB/HB/BS/FS and repeat) and I wonder about another talent: Rime

    I will describe the rotation step by step to make it more clear:

    - IT: 1 frost used
    - 1st HB: 2nd frost +1 unholy
    - 2nd HB: 2nd unholy + 1 death rune
    -
    BS: 2nd blood >>>> Bladed barier proc
    - FS


    I don't know if it's a glitch or if I am retarded (maybe both) but I am having an issue with this rotation. Basically after the first HB, I hit BT. I can see that an unholy & a death rune are available but I keep getting 'Spell not available' when I try to HB again. It's as if the death rune isn't being recognized or available as a frost rune. It is taking about 2-3 seconds for it to finally fire. Any thoughts on this issuse?


    This rotation (and spec) was made when HB was without CD (on the PTR); it didnt make it live so it dont work anymore; yes the tooltip still say there is no CD but that's a typo, like Frothymilk said.

    However you can use the same rotation with OB instead of HB.

    The spec will be a bit different though and it is not as appealing as the HB one for me but it still strong. The major lost is that with the HB spec, most of the rotation was spells, so we could almost ignore expertise and just cap hit (spell cap but with irulence and a Boomkin druid/shadow priest it doesnt require much more +hit than the melee cap); another lost is that OB require much more talents to be as good as HB (it become better if we add the OB glyph and sigil however).

    My spec will look like this (as soon as they fix this damn bug...): Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    And I will still us the same short rotation than with HB.


    Feanorr


    PS: anyone know a good TPS meter please, who work for DK? I never used one yet but it could help me.

  5. #45
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    For a tps meter I think recount do it, and live you could find that omen is not bad at all.

    As for that OB bug, assuming that is the bug you are speaking about, I found it as soon as I logged. But will running Naxx in my current frost spec I found that it wasn't so annoying. Reason ? During the run the bug disapeared. This morning wasn't here at all.

    Can't say that all of my OB was generating RP, but I haven't noticed one that doesn't.

  6. #46
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    -Feanorr

    Just my 2 cents... with your build you might want to consider going 1/3 subversion and putting 2/2 in epidemic, you will see larger threat gains point for point by doing this.

    Other than that, very nice raid build, i will be using something very similar.

  7. #47
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    Long time first time. Love the site though, kudos to all involved in the moderation and content. This site has been a great resource as I move from behind the boss to out front of the boss.

    I mostly serve as OT in our 25s, but I have MT all of Naxx10. I am a committed Frost tank. With the patch I took the 5 pts I had in Bladed Armor and moved them over to Killing Machine. HB Crits are more damage than Oblits. Oblit crits more than HB. So basically in single target situations I prioritize KM HBs over Oblit, and Oblit if I don't have a KM proc, which is rare btw. Most of the time I will use Oblit with Death Runes while HB is on cooldown. (not have a cooldown count sucks for roatations) Killing Machine procs alot with 5 pts, and most of the time I used the procs on IT and FS and still got it up for HB on the rotation.

    Overall I saw a DPS gain in all fights here, but we didn't get a WWS cause of mod issues so I can't qualify it. I'm just going by what I saw in Recount. So far I think KM is good quality TPS, greater than Bladed Armor in any case.

  8. #48
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    This is the spec I used last night.
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=111310060504

    My spec focuses on Obliterate instead of HB, the only time I use HB is when it's free. My obliterate crits are hitting for 6k on average and my DPS is sky high. With OB sitting at around 40% crit raid buffed (Without LotP) it crits quite often and I'd say that on average I have a 50-53% crit rate on bosses.

    I still see no reason in taking KM over any of the other talents as most of my auto attacks are Rune Strikes. When I stop being lazy I'll run some WWS reports and if I ever get some Broken Promises, I'll do a comparison to DW tanking.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  9. #49
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    @Tarrke: does recount or omen take care of the agro mod. of DnD and runestrike, and even from our frost presence?



    Quote Originally Posted by Merko View Post
    -Feanorr

    Just my 2 cents... with your build you might want to consider going 1/3 subversion and putting 2/2 in epidemic, you will see larger threat gains point for point by doing this.

    Other than that, very nice raid build, i will be using something very similar.

    As I said I use a short rotation (IT/OB/OB/BS/FS // repeat); from my maths it produce more threat than a standard rotation (IT/PS/BS/BS/OB/FS // OB/OB/OB/FS) or even one with DnD; so I dont need epidemic, even with lag and one or 2 miss, the 12sec is enough.

    On the other side, I gain 6% crit on 3/5 of my rotation (OB and BS).

    Fea

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inaara View Post
    I still see no reason in taking KM over any of the other talents as most of my auto attacks are Rune Strikes. When I stop being lazy I'll run some WWS reports and if I ever get some Broken Promises, I'll do a comparison to DW tanking.

    KM does proc from runestrike; it have been tested before the patch already, and the patch note say (from mmochampions):
    "Killing Machine: Instead of a chance to be triggered on critical strike, this talent now has a chance to be triggered on each swing based on the swing time of the weapon (slow weapons more likely, fast weapons less likely)."

    So I think it confirm that it can proc from RS.

    And I can tell you, from my last raid, that while MTing, it does proc a lot.

    So you should take it over Icy talons imo.

    Another great talent that you miss in your tree: Bladed armor; it's better for agro than both 2H spe and Subversion (point by point).


    Even if I discovered today that it seem to take only your base armor into acount (or at least the PA doesnt change when you go in frost presence).


    Fea

  11. #51
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    I'm currently tanking all 10 man content with a DW KM/HB build (yeah, despite HB cd). No FS nor OB. I'm hitting 5-6k tps with KM procs (and it does proc often). I have yet to experience trouble with single or multimob tanking, and my dps has had much better drop luck than I ;(

    just for your information and consideration.

    regards,
    Sar

  12. #52
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    I do love the new changes for Frost threat. I'm a little sad the CD went back on HB, though 5 is better than 6 for smoothing rune sets.

    I'm planning to do some Frost tanking time to gauge just how the talents work now, but KM just seems a sexy prospect if used well.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    @Tarrke: does recount or omen take care of the agro mod. of DnD and runestrike, and even from our frost presence?
    For Omen (which is a thret meter) of course it takes all of that, the counter part is you will always see your current tps, and can't go back to see, let's say your averge tps on Patch.

    For recount I must check logged before saying anything stupid. But I remember seeing a tps part in that. Have to check if it's up to date or not with the thret modificators.

  14. #54
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    Yea for omen my question was stupid but it wont give me my average tps

  15. #55
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    My WWS on patch for last night.

    Wow Web Stats

    The raid hit a huge lag spike at the end and I died >_<. After being able to compare AA's to RS's I can see taking KM although it still feels like a huge investment of talent points. I will most likely make some changes to the build but I still don't feel comfortable taking KM. Moving 3 points out of Subversion and 2 out of Icy Reach into BA.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

    P.S. BA is affected by your armor presence, it just takes a little for it to change on the character sheet.
    Last edited by Inaara; 01-23-2009 at 10:08 AM.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inaara View Post
    After being able to compare AA's to RS's I can see taking KM although it still feels like a huge investment of talent points. I will most likely make some changes to the build but I still don't feel comfortable taking KM. Moving 3 points out of Subversion and 2 out of Icy Reach into BA.
    Erhmm... what's AA?

    Anyway, honestly the new KM is simply great; it proc a lot and even with the cd back on HB there is still FS to use it (or the free HB from rime's proc).

    For your personnal threat I am almost sure KM is a lot better than Icy talons; if you need icy talons for your raid, you can take 2 points from merciless combat, one from Deathchill and the last 2 from 2H spec.

    During my last Naxx 25, frost strike had a 45% of crit, and my melee crit is 8,33%. With the 45% crit damage modifier it's a huge boost in damage and threat imo.



    Try KM and you will adopt it I am sure

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    Erhmm... what's AA?

    Anyway, honestly the new KM is simply great; it proc a lot and even with the cd back on HB there is still FS to use it (or the free HB from rime's proc).

    For your personnal threat I am almost sure KM is a lot better than Icy talons; if you need icy talons for your raid, you can take 2 points from merciless combat, one from Deathchill and the last 2 from 2H spec.

    During my last Naxx 25, frost strike had a 45% of crit, and my melee crit is 8,33%. With the 45% crit damage modifier it's a huge boost in damage and threat imo.



    Try KM and you will adopt it I am sure

    Question for those of you not taking VoTW: are you not taking it because it's not worth the points? 6% stam seems like alot and it would seem pretty critical for any tank.

    I was unholy until 3.0.8 and given the nerfs I decided to try blood (The World of Warcraft Armory) which has been working well in heroics and not bad in 10 man Naxx. However, I'm finding that my "oh sh*t" buttons don't really exist and my ability to survive fights when a healer is having an off night or the timing of the boss isn't just right is low. Any suggestions because this is telling my guild that DKs can't tank as well as Wars (hearing this alot).

    Lastly, my aoe tps isn't what it used to be (obviously).

    My question is for MT 10 man naxx and beyond, would a frost build be better for me or are there tweaks to my build that would make me stronger?

    Thanks

  18. #58
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    Honnestly I can't really say if your build get tweaks in it or if frost build should be better.

    What I can tell you however is :
    - I think Mark of Blood is a great tool. You can let's say, avoid a lot of damage on Sapph for exemple, abd some time may allow your heals to get that 0.1 sec that is saving your soul.
    - I really see the blood tree as a tps tree, not a survival one. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never tested it in raid, and I don't think I will. Some cool add you may bring to your raid and yet you don't have them (blood aura 2/2 get the black ice point).
    - Sudent doom may be a good tps talent too.
    - In frost build I've tanked everything, and specially Naxx 10 men with 2 heals and most of Naxx 20 men (we havn't kill some bosses yet but we're close to it).

    I don't really like saying that a kind of build is better than an other. I'm feeling like ice, so I play frost tank. Some are feeling like unholy, so they play unholy. If you feel like blood, just go blood. If you don't feel more blood than anything else, just try and find your way to go.
    My other point is, the build don't do everything. I've got an other DK who is unholy dps speced. That doesn't prevent him from tanking (in tanking gear of course) some adds or some trashes (we usually run we few tanks in 10 men) and his survavibility is not that bad.

    for what I see from your armory, maybe just gem as dodge + stam instead of stam only. Dodge is a cool stat imo.

  19. #59
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    I dont see how the

    IT HB HB type rotations will work with HB having a 5sec CD.

    I switched over from unholy just to make this kind of build after reading all this thread. Meh

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inaara View Post
    This is the spec I used last night.
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=111310060504

    My spec focuses on Obliterate instead of HB, the only time I use HB is when it's free. My obliterate crits are hitting for 6k on average and my DPS is sky high. With OB sitting at around 40% crit raid buffed (Without LotP) it crits quite often and I'd say that on average I have a 50-53% crit rate on bosses.

    I still see no reason in taking KM over any of the other talents as most of my auto attacks are Rune Strikes. When I stop being lazy I'll run some WWS reports and if I ever get some Broken Promises, I'll do a comparison to DW tanking.
    This is probably more in line with my play style as a frost tank. It's funny, among our tanks (War, puh-bleep and myself) the way we compete for max health and we play around with threat. Not for serious tanking, but on those big adds we see who can 'threat' the most and gain the mobs attn.
    I changed out my frost strike glyph to obliterate, will have to go farm some 'g' to respec and try this out. The puh-bleep always wins threat competition.

    LK
    "serious walnut- crunching ass power" from: Merry Christmas, Bob, By Chris Shugart

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