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Thread: Frost Tank Spec 3.0.8

  1. #21
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    Ok, thanks pointing out that i've the sigil and of course the glyphe. I said of course, but that's not so simple. I came to that glyphe once I've laid my hands on that sigil (which is one of the best, if not the best, sigils for threat generation).

    I'm pretty concerned by my tps at all times as I came from a dps class and know how the ground is easy to get to by having had poor tank (really poor tank at that time) and so I don't want that to be said of me. That's why I tend to go to the best tps I can do, but staying alive is my first prioritie of course.

    That said, I've researched a bit more on your maths and found one thing. That thing is that your math are correct of course, and that Obli is less ap friendly than HB. If i take my spec and stuff redoing the math for my OB et my HB I get to this :
    OB hit : 2244
    OB crit : 5500
    HB hit : 1523
    HB crit : 4105


    and then of course the answer is obvious, and that's why my little brain told me : don't waste time and rune doing your HB if there is no more thant one mob. What's changing so we get totally opposed results ?
    I'll say that getting a slower weapon is in favor of OB, same with a greater dmg plage (and theses two came together in general). Getting poor AP (comparaing my 2k2 ap with your 3k ap I'll say I get poor ap ^^) is in favor of OB as it scale with less than HB does. Obviously getting that glyphe and sigil are for something in my choises.

    From that I'll conclude taht if you want to go to HB tanking in frost it should be possible at some cost. First of all get ride of the glyphe and find something to put in place. Can't be sur of what you'll choose but something likt FS glyphe doesn't seem bad at all. them spec to something like that Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft so you get all the buff on HB. Find some weapon with the hugest ap you can find, don't mind the speed except for RS but should be ok if it's a 2H weapon anyway.
    As for the spec don't really know if 2% crit on all is worth the 4% dmg with your 2H weapon, I think so but not sure atm. This should give you some nice HB and on the other hands poor OB.

    As for me I'll stick with my OB 2H threat generation I think. I'll give a shot to that KM new system but not sure the incomming threat will replace my big opening OB with Deathchill and the loose of the aura or acclimatation.

    About your comment on that we get more crit than on the character sheet for HB, I've really never give it a thought. I can link you another WWS link if you want, with a 4 wing Naxx 10 men as the MT, so I really spend the whole time in my tanking gear. During this run I've cast 659 HB and get the following resuslts :
    620 regular hits
    31 crits
    4 misses
    4 other misses (think about some invul or something like that).
    leaving alone the misses that mean a near 5% crit. My character sheet say 2% crit with spells. No support for HB crit, the 3% more should come from I don't know. Can't blame the pallies on this as most of my moves where done on thrashes. I know my pallies love dpsing the trashes but not to the point of judging them so I cant crit more

  2. #22
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    Can you tell me what is your other glyphs? I dunno if we can see them on armory but didnt find.

    My plan was to use IT glyph, RS glyph and UA glyph.
    RS is by far my first dps move when I am MT, and next patch even if it will do less dps, it will make even more agro (150x150% = 225%). SO it's the first choice for agro I think.
    UA is for def, I am not really fan of it, but that's the only defensive one we got.
    I could see the IT one replaced by OB, but more RP mean more RS; exept if you have a Palatank then you dont need more RP ^^


    PS: you get less PA than me mostly because you dont have Bladed armor; and you should get it really. I seen some maths comparing it to 2H spec, subversion, dark conviction and it always win by a lot in term of dps/tps. And with next patch we will have more armor, so it will be even better ^^
    Last edited by Feanorr; 01-15-2009 at 10:08 AM.

  3. #23
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    UA glyph probably won't be worth it come 3.0.8. I'd recommend the IBF glyph in all honesty as it transforms it into a true "Oh Sh't" button instead of requiring you have 20 runic power to use it. I'll probably still use the DnD glyph that I have now come 3.0.8, figure 20% more damage on it is still extra threat either way.

  4. #24
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    This will be my frost tanking spec. Glyphs are included.
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=111315050406
    Last edited by Inaara; 01-15-2009 at 10:16 AM.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xKhellendrosx View Post
    UA glyph probably won't be worth it come 3.0.8. I'd recommend the IBF glyph in all honesty as it transforms it into a true "Oh Sh't" button instead of requiring you have 20 runic power to use it. I'll probably still use the DnD glyph that I have now come 3.0.8, figure 20% more damage on it is still extra threat either way.
    My real Oh shit button is lichborn not IBF; anyway I always try to stay between 40 and 100 RP, to be sure that I have enough RP for RS, so I dont see the necessity of the IBF glyph. If it was a minor sure, but a major no.

    I may take the FS glyph instead of UA though.

  6. #26
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    I use Lichborne more as an afterthought than anything else, I don't worry about staying between any magic number RP wise as I tend to have blessing of sanctuary on due to the Paladin OT in the raid. I don't like the idea of having to "bank" rune power incase I need to use something.

  7. #27
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    Oh shit buttons are called oh shit buttons for a reason, you use them when you're in trouble. Having to rely on RP to use an ability is not smart. Additionally, saving RP means you may not be maximizing on threat/DPS. With the available Glyphs for frost tanking, there is no reason not to take it.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  8. #28
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    In my opinion Howling Blast is far superior to Obliterate. By spamming HB you get all the bonuses of casting a spell rather than physical attack. OB may be better if you have the expertise take the essential talents and glyphs, neither of which I can afford as a pre-naxx DK tank.

    On topic however, the spec I'm planning on using for 3.0.8 is Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    Another topic I wanted to throw into the mix is a new AoE rotation

    DND-IT-PEST-Rune Tap (or blood tap, I cant remember which one gives you the blood rune into a death rune)-HB
    with a deathchill thrown in there you have some awesome threat, without even using PS

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inaara View Post
    Additionally, saving RP means you may not be maximizing on threat/DPS.
    Reread what I said, I "bank" some RP not for IBF but for Runestrike, to maximise my Threat/dps.
    I try to avoid to be at max RP of course, but I also try to avoid to be at 0 and dont have enough for the next RS.

    RS do more DPS/threat than FS or DC, so saving some RP to make sure RS will proc as often as possible is maximizing our Threat/DPS imo.

    And it will be even more true next patch with the 150% threat bonus.

    And the side effect is that I dont have to worry to much about not having enough RP for IBF.


    If you have a Palatank with you, then yes I agree it's not agood idea, because all RS will be "free". But infortunatly, I dont have one most of the time.

  10. #30
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    Ok blizzard ruined all the HB thing by putting it back with a CD :s

  11. #31
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    they better not... it seemed like such a good change, for tanks at least.

    be sure to post your qq and reasoning here: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Feedback] Howling Blast Cooldown
    Last edited by demifiend; 01-15-2009 at 11:08 PM.

  12. #32
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    The latest patchnotes from PTR says the CD is back, although on a 5 second rather than 6 second, to make it mesh better with rune cooldowns.

    They explain they knew it was a gamble, and unfortunately DW became too dominant with this change, even despite the changes to KM. So it looks like it will just get a reduction in CD come the patch.

  13. #33
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    Oh well there goes the spec then. Thanks for all the theory crafting anyway guys!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    Can you tell me what is your other glyphs? I dunno if we can see them on armory but didnt find.

    My plan was to use IT glyph, RS glyph and UA glyph.
    RS is by far my first dps move when I am MT, and next patch even if it will do less dps, it will make even more agro (150x150% = 225%). SO it's the first choice for agro I think.
    UA is for def, I am not really fan of it, but that's the only defensive one we got.
    I could see the IT one replaced by OB, but more RP mean more RS; exept if you have a Palatank then you dont need more RP ^^


    PS: you get less PA than me mostly because you dont have Bladed armor; and you should get it really. I seen some maths comparing it to 2H spec, subversion, dark conviction and it always win by a lot in term of dps/tps. And with next patch we will have more armor, so it will be even better ^^
    Just before getting a train so 'ill be quick sorry for that.

    I use the RS glyphe for the same reason as yours, the OB glyphe and the IBF glyphe so that i can no care about runic and through it whenever I need to.

    For the HB, so bad, that was a good thing imo. And for Bladed armor, I know it's better than 2H spec, but not if you just have 2 points to put in and I'm not sure i'll be able to get some other points, unless I drop Frost Aura which I don't want beafore getting to Ulduar, there i'll see.

    Thx for advice and I'll may reply more on that topic anyway later.

    Edit :
    Ok I'll see that this may go to trash as they put HB back on CD, but there is still things to discuss. As Feanorr pointed out bladed armor is a good talent that can up your whole tps a lot, but I'll see the nex KM ppm system as something that can be a remplacement for it. Let's say that I got 4 points to spend on any tree, and adon't have nor KM neither bladed armor. Which one should I get ? Saying that I'll stick to my Obli system, but will use the KM procs for HB as much as I can (they will go on FS if i'm runic starved at the end of a cycle waiting for runes to get back, so let's say 15% of the time, they will go on IT if I need to refresh it's timer, so let's say 15% of the time also).

    As for the runic banking in order to be sure of RS being doable (is that word really exist ?) at all time, I raid with a prot pally and so I got a so cool Blessing of Sanctuary - Spell - World of Warcraft so every runic is spend on FS as my RS runic cost will be paid by the blessing.
    Last edited by Tarrke; 01-19-2009 at 03:02 AM.

  15. #35
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    Looks like the HB cooldown has been removed completely after all! Guess I will be trying this spec out once the servers come up.

    Keep the comments coming!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakes View Post
    Looks like the HB cooldown has been removed completely after all! Guess I will be trying this spec out once the servers come up.

    Keep the comments coming!
    Or blizzard just did a bad job copy/pasting the patch notes. Take patch notes with a grain of salt as sometimes things listed there do not actually make it onto live, as sometimes bliz employees forget to edit/remove lines from the patch notes they had before.

    I would suggest taking a look at MMO-Champion - World of Warcraft Guides and Raid Strategies as they mention most of the things in PTR Build 9464 (The one where they put HB back on a cooldown) are not mentioned in the Patch notes.
    Last edited by xKhellendrosx; 01-20-2009 at 08:31 AM. Reason: because I can.

  17. #37
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    Yes I'm sad to say that's what it looks like on the DK forums. I saw the patch notes and got excited but supposedly Blizz failed at putting int he correct patch notes. Lol

  18. #38
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    They did knock a second off the cooldown which might make the rotations a little bit smoother. Tanking as Frost is still easy enough as it is, seeing as the only abilities that were changed on us were in the end a buff to Howling Blast and what amounts to a buff to killing machine its still win/win.

  19. #39
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    [quote=Feanorr;155912]I did a few more test on PTR with the short rotation (IT/HB/HB/BS/FS and repeat) and I wonder about another talent: Rime

    I will describe the rotation step by step to make it more clear:

    - IT: 1 frost used
    - 1st HB: 2nd frost +1 unholy
    - 2nd HB: 2nd unholy + 1 death rune
    -
    BS: 2nd blood >>>> Bladed barier proc
    - FS



    I don't know if it's a glitch or if I am retarded (maybe both) but I am having an issue with this rotation. Basically after the first HB, I hit BT. I can see that an unholy & a death rune are available but I keep getting 'Spell not available' when I try to HB again. It's as if the death rune isn't being recognized or available as a frost rune. It is taking about 2-3 seconds for it to finally fire. Any thoughts on this issuse?

  20. #40
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    Ok guys... HB has a 5sec cooldown. It doesnt display. Another bug, just like Oblit not generating RP or Corpse Dust still being required even with the Glyph.

    [quote=copstack;160703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanorr View Post
    I did a few more test on PTR with the short rotation (IT/HB/HB/BS/FS and repeat) and I wonder about another talent: Rime

    I will describe the rotation step by step to make it more clear:

    - IT: 1 frost used
    - 1st HB: 2nd frost +1 unholy
    - 2nd HB: 2nd unholy + 1 death rune
    -
    BS: 2nd blood >>>> Bladed barier proc
    - FS



    I don't know if it's a glitch or if I am retarded (maybe both) but I am having an issue with this rotation. Basically after the first HB, I hit BT. I can see that an unholy & a death rune are available but I keep getting 'Spell not available' when I try to HB again. It's as if the death rune isn't being recognized or available as a frost rune. It is taking about 2-3 seconds for it to finally fire. Any thoughts on this issuse?

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