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Thread: Frost Tank Spec 3.0.8

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroborous View Post
    Disease juggling is a term for DK tanks that came in 3.08, it allowed us to disease a target and pestilence, after the first pestilence it allowed us to spread the diseases or refresh the other targets diseases, so the idea was instead of wasting a frost and unholy and a pestilence you could just use the pestilence and target something else and use pestilence again to refresh the entire groups diseases.
    Technically, I (and others I'm sure) came up with this in the Beta, then they tacked a CD on Pest before it went live. And I cried. Now I celebrate once again!

    Generally I'd consider this an advanced technique, especially for frost without Epidemic, since you have to be sharp and quick with your Pest spreads.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  2. #82
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    Hi all, long time reader first time poster.
    I've been following this thread and trying to perfect my build, I was dps and then a dw tank pre-patch, but with the new runeforge and changes to the talents I have decided to go 2h tanking and I've always prefered the frost playstyle to any other spec.

    I've come up with this spec - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (was wondering if icy reach was worth it as well but decided to fill up bladed armor instead)

    I was wondering if anyone could please look at it and tell what you think. thanks

    edit: also any suggestions for glyphs? As i believe there has been some debate as to which are the best for frost tanking.

  3. #83
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    There is one point left to allocate, and I'm at a loss where to drop it. Deathchill is mostly useless with KM's proc rate. Hungering Cold is meh, Rune Tap seems ok. I could also go with 1% crit.
    I absolutely love glyphed rune tap when tanking.

    Instant 10% raid heal is win on fights like KT. That alone's enough to clutch heal someone through a frost blast. Just wish I could work the imp version into a frost tanking build.

  4. #84
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    Hi,

    I have read the post from the beggining and I think I have found my build and glyphs, here is the link http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=111315050406

    Now the problem is the best rotation I can use with this build. I know I have to use 2 blood runes in order to obtain the parry buff, also I have to use Obliterate because of the glyph and Rune strike when available for extra aggro.

    Could you please suggest the best rotation for these glyphs and talents?

    Thanks in advance.

  5. #85
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    Hi,

    your build is something like mine with a few changes. First of all you may want to concider this build too. I really don't think that Merciless Combat worth 2 points, and really chill of the grave is a really good investisment.

    That said I mainly use two kind of rotations depending if this is trash and I'm on the 3rd or 4th mob to be down, or this is trash and my DD are all out on mine, or if this is a boss. And a third rotation when I got an ae trash to tank.

    Not lazy rotation :
    IT PS Ob BS BS
    Ob Ob Ob
    repeat

    Lazy rotation :
    IT Ob Ob BS
    Ob BS Ob
    repeat

    Think this is this, but really can't say for sure that this is the perfect rotation with one desease up.

    AE Rotation :
    DnD IT PS Pest (switch target)
    HB Pest (switch target)
    HB Pest (switch target)
    ...

    Anyhow you'll want to :
    1/ Keep your desease up
    2/ RS whenever it's up
    3/ Obli
    4/ FS as runic dump
    This is on single target, on multi target just Pest HB is great. A DnD at the opening is merly a way to pass my IT PS Pest combo and still get the mob on me and not on the SP. After that I don't loose a single mob to any caster. Be sure to warn your caster that the threat at the begining may be a little low, but after 2 or 3 death from that they'll just wait for 2 seconds and it's a win.

  6. #86
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    Thank you for your quick and nice answer, I will change from merciless to chill of the grave. Regarding your AE rotation I suppose, I have to do something like this

    DnD IT PS Pest (switch target)
    HB Pest (switch target)
    HB Pest (switch target)
    Until IT and PS are down and then repeat
    IT PS Pest
    HB Pest
    HB Pest
    .....

    Right?


    Thanks again

  7. #87
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    I ran some numbers on the test dummy between the IT/PS/OBL/BS/BS OBL OBL OBL vs. IT/OBL/OBL/BS and even tho IT/OBL/OBL/BS put out better numbers than i thought it would. It was still putting out ~10% less dps. I know dummy =/= real raid situation but just trying to help the DK cause.

  8. #88
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    Merko, the purpose of BS/BS is not only dps but for the talent blade barrier (buff for parrying). You have to consider the mitigation of damage not only the dps.

  9. #89
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    Incidentally, a little trick I picked up a while back, rather than burning your B rune CDs together, split them. If you separate them by a move or two it makes it much easier to keep Blade Barrier up. Instead of potentially having them both coming up and having to spend them both again (which I'm sure the sharpest tanks can still pull off the 1 sec window, but...), you can refresh the clock once every 5 seconds.

    The trade off is that you don't apply it up front as quickly (though I can just by popping Rune Tap before I go in for single pulls, and DnD accomplishes that for me on group pulls), but it is solid and easy to maintain during a fight.

    If you keep this mindset for staggering B CDs you may find it is one less thing you have to keep on top of.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  10. #90
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    So far I have been having fun with frost. I went with a build that has KM and Icy Talons. I am not using OB at all in my rotations. In 25man I seem to hover at 3.5K TPS spiking to 4K now and then. My gear is mostly T7 with a few T7.5. I expect my TPS is a result of my gear not my talents or rotation but i could be wrong.

    My single target rotation:
    IT-PS-BS-BS-HB-FS
    I also use RS often.

    So far when MTing I have yet to have agro pulled from me but I saw a mage pulling 5K dps last trip to Naxx. A well geared warrior was tanking and was pulled 6K TPS. I hope that when I get all the spiffy Naxx gear my TPS will scale up.

    My AOE roation:
    D&D: IT-PS-PEST-HB-BB-FS

    With KM crits I have had no problem at all with AOE.

  11. #91
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    Hi Tardacus,

    I don't know your glyphs and sigil, but I suppose that your weapon is a good one, so I think if you use OB instead of HB (specially for single target, where you can break a cc easyly) your TPS will scale up.

  12. #92
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    Anacron... I was doing it for the purpose of comparing the 2 rotations, yes you are right it is optimal for your healers to put the BS BS before OBL, but for most fights you should pop your IBF as you run in so your healers don't have to worry as much about pre casting anyway. (not that its really necessary in nax but thats a whole nother topic)

    No matter which way you do it, it is only 1.5seconds of blade barrier your saving... not really worth calling someone out when they are just posting information for tps analysis, which in no way matters which BS BS or OBL come first. So thank you and have a nice day

    ... and for that 1.5 second trade off your giving your dps a little extra breathing room incase they get a string of crits, so its really not all that terrible.

  13. #93
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    Satorri,

    usually I really get your point fast, but here I really don't :s I may be in a bad day or something but what is the point in breaking our BR ? I see that's what I'm doing as an ae pull, but honestly theses pull don't last enought (is that english btw ? I mean their duration is quite short as all the DD are giving all they can in ae) so I never noticed that my blade barrier was simplier to refresh.
    I don't think I'm one of the sharpiest tanks but really keeping my BB up never got on my nerves, except for some bosses that stun or something like that (I've in mind King Imirion [really hope that's his name ^^] here) and as they all stand in instances they're no big deal. Even if they may come into raid dungeons, I assume my priority will then be : as soon as I got out of the stun, if the runes are here, just BS*2 then restack my desease, then restart a proper rotation as soon as I can.

    I'll give it a try, as we say here, better try than die as a thumb.


    @Tardacus :
    Never ever say that your TPS comes from your stuff by pushing anything. A big part of your TPS IS your stuff, the same part as your DD's damage. But your rotation and your spec makes you unique, and therefore event if we got the same stuff and the same spec, we will never get exactly the same tps as we won't push the same button at the same time.
    For us DK I'll say that our rotation is something you should rely on. The same night, the same raid, the same boss. We failed first attempt when a caster toke Patch out of me, with 5k dps and he complained that I wasn't pulling enought aggro. this night I've changed my opening and my rotation just to try and see. I've been pulling a nice 7k threat on Patch this night (if I trust omen and recount for that part). what have I done to get something like that ? Not so much, just went out of my old DnD rotation to a new one, the one I use today.
    That said, never neglect your weapon, this is a great part of your tps.

  14. #94
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    I guess half the fun of playing a DK is that there are so many different ways to get the job done. I lub this forum, gives me so many idea to try out.

  15. #95
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    Here is a link to my armory : The World of Warcraft Armory
    Ok so i have some kind of blood spec right now, just testing some things.

    I'm trying to settle down for a solid TPS build, for bosse's. I haven't got any luck with heigan dropping the sigil yet, but have acces to all the other sigil's. Oh, and no weapon drops for either.

    With my guild, we are missing Sartha 2D and 3D. I dont usually have any TPS problems, maybe on Malygos sometimes against a Affliction warlock.

    What you think would be a good spec/rotation for a single target boss?
    When i was frost, i used BT-> IT-OB-OB-BS-RP dump. Is it really any good?
    Wondering otherwise if : IT-PS-BS-OB-BS-RP dump-OBx3 would be better?

  16. #96
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    Oh, Tarrke, what I'm talking about isn't necessary, but I find it slightly easier ergonomics to keep Blade Barrier up non-stop.

    The idea is simply not to always put your Blood rune pair right next to each other. If you use a B rune, then anything else, then the other, it creates a stagger so you're always hitting the available B rune while the other is on CD (thus triggering a Blade Barrier refresh). If both B runes are available you have to do 2 moves before it is refreshed. It's a subtle shift, but a handy one.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  17. #97
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    To Plague Strike or not to Plague Strike, that is the question.

    I've been playing with the IT/OB rotation with HBs for AOE and FS for runic dumps. DPS is better now that I got the OB Sigil finally. I am still using Demise cause the droprate for 2 handers in our guild closely resembles a Dyson.

    So the question is, now that I got the Sigil, do I add PS back to the rotation for the incresed multiplier on OB or not? The spreadsheet has them very close in DPS with an edge towards no PS.

    I'd really like to see them increase the initial damage on PS to be similar to untalented BS without the disease component. At least then it might be worth applying the disease in a raid environment.

  18. #98
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    All i can say is beat up on a test dummy, you will see the difference.

  19. #99

    For better threat?

    Thinking of trying out the build below:

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    Things you'll note are that I dropped are:

    Lichborne (will be relying on crab+valor and 21 sec IBF)
    Chill of the Grave (somehow I find the flow of RP ok even without this)
    Epidemic at 1/2 (+3 sec is enough for the diseases to cover the rotation)

    Then I picked up the following:

    Killing Machine (5/5)
    Frost Aura (2/2)
    Acclimation (3/3)
    2H Weapon Spec (2/2)
    Bladed Armor (5/5)

    Added frost aura + acclimation to make sure I have enough magic resistance (pally aura won't stack, yes). From previous fights with acclimation, I often find it almost up at 3 stacks the whole time.

    Killing Machine procs too often for slow 2H that it's too good to pass up for threat. 2H Weapon Spec + Bladed Armor makes sure when you swing, you swing hard enough. Better if hit + expertise minimums are met.

    Do you guys think this will be ok? Would really appreciate your opinion.

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