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Thread: Heroes Surrender vs Wall of Terror

  1. #21
    Regardless of the unusual suggestions about rage generation through parry...Are we also forgetting how bad parry is punished by the Diminishing Returns monster? That is the true reason I (as a warrior) prefer dodge. However, anything after stam, armor, defense, sockets, hit, expertise is just considered 'nice to have.'

    Oh, and I'll use the old hunter analogy to solve the classism debate: "If I can equip it, I can roll on it." (of course, I'm not that greedy, but to illustrate a point.)

  2. #22
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    Dodge > Parry.

    If parry comes on gear, well wth take it, but as its been pointed out its not a good idea to gem for it or to take the parry armor over another piece of the same general quality without it.

  3. #23
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    Does resetting a swing timer affect GCD? Or just white? I was under the impression that a reset of the swing timer affectively resets GCD.

    It would be super sweet if it did reset the GCD and in that instance you could seriously argue that parry is more of an asset then dodge (dps, rage generation, and threat gain would all be affected).
    Execute for show, tank for dough.

  4. #24
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    I picked up the Heroes Surrender last night. The two pally tanks that were ahead of me in epgp didn't chime in that they wanted it. I guess they are still needing all the defense from their Titansteel Shieldwalls. I'm not normally one to care about how equipment looks but I have to say Heroes Surrender looks bad azz.

    I'll have to use my Titansteel Shieldwall with my frost resist set. I use the shield out of Strat, Royal Crest of Lordaeron, with a shiled spike for heroics.

  5. #25
    Resetting a swing timer does nothing for your GCD.

    Parry also doesn't reset your swing timer, it hastes your attack by a percentage based on how long you had left to swing.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingWraith View Post
    You do get rage from parries... Its dodge you dont get it from.
    Galushi is right, you do not get rage from Parries. That is a myth.

    HOWEVER, if you are attacking with a special and your attack is dodged you lose the rage that you would have spend. If you are parried you do not lose the cost in rage of the attack. I think this aspect is misunderstood and causes the myth to persist.

    Formulas:Parry - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
    (See the note about Rage Generation).

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingWraith View Post
    There is dodge on Wall of Terror also. So i'd rather take Dodge/Block/High Def rating over Hero's...

    A warrior tanks main prio should be parry/block.. People just tend to go for dodge since its the easiest avoidance to get.
    Do you really know anything about tanking at all? Or are you just spewing forth what random people say?

    Dodge is as important to warriors as it is to paladins.

  8. #28
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    All the people that think parry > dodge have issues. Shield block rating does really nothing for main tanking in raids, unless you like to step into 5 mans and see all the guys hit like pansies. Point for point, dodge > parry do to it giving more avoidance AND for not diminishing nearly as quickly as parry. Hence, you never gem for parry.
    Told you so.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tPaste View Post
    Galushi is right, you do not get rage from Parries. That is a myth.

    HOWEVER, if you are attacking with a special and your attack is dodged you lose the rage that you would have spend. If you are parried you do not lose the cost in rage of the attack. I think this aspect is misunderstood and causes the myth to persist.

    Formulas:Parry - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
    (See the note about Rage Generation).
    Well i am sorry then for my miss-informing then =)...


    @ DeviousOne, yes i have, From MC to SWP to Sarth 10/25 with 3 drakes up... pretty much tanked everything wow has to offer.

  10. #30
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    For those who say WoT is better for pallies:
    It has too much block value >_<
    I'm currently using the BoE and I'm horrily block capped

    The amount of stats wasted on extra block from WoT would just make the "upgrade" pointless

  11. #31
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    i have heroes and love it. The fact i look like a walking BBQ is a mute point but still its doen me fine as a warrior tank and i know our pally tank would love it also.

    I agree with other posts above.. WoT is more a trash/heroic spank item imo and i wouldnt be using my DKP to replace heroes in any great rush.

    I still have my titanshield in the bag for frost spec for the pure def boost.

    And to add to the argument ... im defintely, wholley and well and truly of the opinion that for warrior tanks its DEF>Dodge>Parry>Block. Unless your building a block set ofc.
    Belgariad: EU : Lightnings Blade. Once a Tank. Always a Tank.

  12. #32
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    I would argue that Barricade of Eternity is more of a trash shield than Wall of Terror, 28 expertise would seem to be more threat than the block rating and strength contribute.

    I would also argue that of the three shields, Barricade of Eternity is the most well-rounded shield..an equal focus between threat and avoidance/survival.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalphir View Post
    I would argue that Barricade of Eternity is more of a trash shield than Wall of Terror, 28 expertise would seem to be more threat than the block rating and strength contribute.

    I would also argue that of the three shields, Barricade of Eternity is the most well-rounded shield..an equal focus between threat and avoidance/survival.
    Depends how you tank trash. Shockwave and thunderclap rely on hit alone, not expertise. And a lot of AoE threat comes from them, also more blockrating will give you more often a block=more often damage shield.

  14. #34
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    just a shame that barricade drops from malygos..which is generally completed after your guild has done all the hard progression work.....
    Belgariad: EU : Lightnings Blade. Once a Tank. Always a Tank.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingWraith View Post
    Well i am sorry then for my miss-informing then =)...


    @ DeviousOne, yes i have, From MC to SWP to Sarth 10/25 with 3 drakes up... pretty much tanked everything wow has to offer.
    Then you have bad information.

  16. #36
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    Wow there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

    Parry/dodges don't give you rage.

    Diminishing returns aside, 1 parry rating = .8 dodge rating for avoidance.

    Unless you've hit the DR cap for parry, you should value these stats as if there was no DR. I doubt anyone has hit the inflection points for DR on parry and dodge so for simplicity we should all assume 1 parry rating = .8 dodge rating +/-10%. Only hugely disproportionate amounts of dodge to parry will throw off this empirically accurate stat weight.

    If you think DR affects your comparison of dodge to parry, show me your armory. You'll be suprised in how little DR affects the relative value of dodge and parry for 99% of all tanks out there.

    You can compare block rating to parry rating/dodge rating, but you need to know averaged SBV and average hit size. It's more complicated.

    There are no talents, abilities, or mechanics that would have paladins value dodge or parry differently then warrior.

    The expertise cap is FAR lower on trash, making the WoT superior unless you have a abysmally low expertise rating. WoT adds +20 Str (10 SBV) and 6 block value and some armor (AttT for warriors) at the expense of 28 expertise rating on the Barricade.

    Bottom line: Both shields rock! Both are the best in the game for warriors and pallys. It really depends on your current stats, and the specific encounter.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    Depends how you tank trash. Shockwave and thunderclap rely on hit alone, not expertise. And a lot of AoE threat comes from them, also more blockrating will give you more often a block=more often damage shield.
    Damage Shield procs from unblocked hits too, more block rating doesn't increase the amount of damage shield procs unless its accompanied by a reduction in dodge and parry as well.

  18. #38
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    I now have all 3 of the shields and have been wondering how best to make use of them. I'm not just thinking about which to use, but which enchant to apply. I've been using wall of terror with a +def enchant. It occurred to me that it might be a better idea to put a +SBV kit on there and use it specifically as a threat shield, while using one of the other two with a +def enchant when mitigation is the priority. On the other hand, perhaps the barricade with it's expertise is a better candidate for the threat enchant...

    Is anyone else doing something like this?

  19. #39
    I don't have the Malygos shield, but I'm running with the +def enchant on Heroes (for max. avoidance) and +SBV on WoT for trash & heroics. It just strikes me that it's better to play to the strength of each item, and I can be defense (crit reduction) capped in either set without much of a sacrifice.
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  20. #40
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    Barricade of Eternity is my preference for most scenarios, and as others have said, I keep all 3 shields with different enchant choices for different situations. Really the best way to go atm imo. Each shield offers you defense + 1 avoidance stat, then an extra stat unique to that shield. Wall of Terror, for instance, offers you more block rating (and even slightly more block value and armor from the ilvl 226), whereas Hero's Surrender offers you pure avoidance through a second avoidance stat, and ultimately Barricade offers you the threat alternative with the addition of expertise. As I said, Barricade is my preference in most situations atm, but all three are very nice shields that fit both a Paladin and a Warrior just fine. Hang onto them, try out different enchants, and find uses for them in different situations.
    Last edited by ItZMuRdA; 02-07-2009 at 01:33 AM. Reason: Spelling errorz.
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