Lavanthor's Talisman Worth It?

[Kazeyonoma]

you're neglecting the 1.3 modifier we get from Shield Mastery. that bumps up the Lavanthor to 1144 when shield block and modifier and just 572 when no shield block

and the GAB at 673 with sb and trinket up 336 without sb and 152 trinket down but sb up

and passive gab has 76 sbv.

so you'd have
lavanthor:
(1144*10 + 572*10)/120 = 143 sbv
and
GAB:
(673*10 + 336*10 + 76*80 + 152*20)/120 = 185 sbv

GAB/Coin wins.

[frim]

Over the course of the 100 seconds that both trinkets are on cooldown, i agree that the Coin/Autoblocker give more SBV (0 < 59), however the boost that the Lavanthor gives is so great that in the course of the 120 second cycle, you get more SBV from it.

Because you are always looking for SnB procs and hitting SSlam as much as humanly possible, what matters is average SBV over the course of the 120 second trinket cycle, and Lavanthor gives you just under 20 SBV more than the Coin or the Autoblocker.

Of course nothing is stopping you from using a Lavanthor AND a Coin/Autoblocker!

[frim]

you're neglecting the 1.3 modifier we get from Shield Mastery. that bumps up the Lavanthor to 1144 when shield block and modifier and just 572 when no shield block

and the GAB at 673 with sb and trinket up 336 without sb and 152 trinket down but sb up

and passive gab has 76 sbv.

so you'd have
lavanthor:
(1144*10 + 572*10)/120 = 143 sbv
and
GAB:
(673*10 + 336*10 + 76*80 + 152*20)/120 = 185 sbv

GAB/Coin wins.

Hum I did didn't I. Well there ya go

[Tatt]

Ok let's expand the debate...if I have autoblocker, lavanthor's, and mirror of truth, which two trinekts should I equip for the most threat?

[frim]

you're neglecting the 1.3 modifier we get from Shield Mastery. that bumps up the Lavanthor to 1144 when shield block and modifier and just 572 when no shield block

and the GAB at 673 with sb and trinket up 336 without sb and 152 trinket down but sb up

and passive gab has 76 sbv.

so you'd have
lavanthor:
(1144*10 + 572*10)/120 = 143 sbv
and
GAB:
(673*10 + 336*10 + 76*80 + 152*20)/120 = 185 sbv

GAB/Coin wins.

I think your math is wrong. But yea, while Coin/Autoblocker is better, but not 185 sbv, closer to 160.

Factoring in the +30% block value:
Lavanthor:
(880*1.3*10 + 440*1.3*10)/120 =
(1144*10 + 572*10)/120 = 143 sbv

Coin/Autoblocker:
(518*1.3*10 + 259*1.3*10 + 59*1.3*80 + 118*1.3*20)/120 =
(673.4*10 + 336.7*10 + 76.7*80 + 153.4*20)/120 = 160.87 sbv


Thats all fine and good because I can't get that stupid dog boss to spawn for me for the HVH achievements anyway

[klor]

That one is a bit harder due to the fact that it really involves your spec.

Mirror of truth offers ~1.83% crit. The proc itself is partial luck and partial due in part to your amount of crit. Saying you have roughly 10% crit, the trinket itself has a 10% proc chance, so one in every 100 gcds (should) proc it in theory. Luckily for us RNG leans both ways

I still run this trinket over lavanthors. The crit chance helps push me up close to 15% in a raid scenario as base, before adding in skill modified crit bonuses like Incite and SnB, etc.

Plus it helps keep my DW rolling. I never was a huge fan of a -dps- trinket that only offers a bonus when its off cd. Which is why i looked into gab versus lavanthor.

And thanks guys for doing the more indepth math.. i'm not the greatest at number crunching

[Sedraxis]

What about GAB vs LAB for tankadins?

[frim]

Bah. I knew that math didn't break. It was bothering me that factoring in that +30% shield block talent would change anything. It doesn't! That 1.3 factor just distributes out of the numerator and effects the whole average value independent of the talent or not.

I had a PBCAK error (Problem Between Chair and Keyboard) and couldn't enter numbers into a calculator apparently. The real calculation for Coin/Autoblocker without the 30% shield block is:

(518*10 + 259*10 + 59*80 + 118*20)/120 = 123.75.


Carry on

[Kazeyonoma]

whoops you're right it's 160 not 183. O_o.

[Kazeyonoma]

no no no, it does change things frim.

because when the trinkets are on CD.

When lavanthor trinket on use is blown and the remainder of the time passes, it gives NO beneficial SBV at all.

That's where the GAB makes up time, because it has a constant 59 just equipped. that's why you have to factor in the 1.3 because although for all of the other calculations (both trinkets popped, or just shield block or etc) they are on equal grounds so you can factor out the 1.3. but you can't factor out the 1.3 from the 59 because there is no equivalent in the Lavanthor scenario.

[frim]

Oh for sure! That 59 passive is the crux of the argument and its what makes the older trinkets better. I only went through that exercise because I had no idea myself, and I wanted to find out.

But mathematically speaking, the distributive property always wins. If I multiply everything in a numerator of a fraction by a constant, then the resulting number that represents that fraction will be multiplied by that constant as well.

Check it yourself. Add in the corresponding terms to the Lavathor calculation that the GAB has.

(880*1.3*10 + 440*1.3*10 + 0*1.3*80 + 0*1.3*20)/120 =
(1.3*(880*10 + 440*10 + 0*80 + 0*20))/120 =
1.3*((880*10 + 440*10 + 0*80 + 0*20)/120) = 1.3*(110) = 143

GAB...
(518*1.3*10 + 259*1.3*10 + 59*1.3*80 + 118*1.3*20)/120 =
1.3*(518*10 + 259*10 + 59*80 + 118*20)/120) = 1.3*(123.75) = 160.87

[frim]

I just think you probably had the same error I did.. punching numbers into a calculator

I just copied and pasted your math line into google..

(673*10 + 336*10 + 76*80 + 152*20)/120 - Google Search

[Kazeyonoma]

yeh, calculator fail.

[Zalmanusa]

I love using it at the start of a pull together with shield block and shield slam.