Question about under performers

[hellion]

You "expect all raiders to be raid ready" - are these expectations written down in a policy? If so, /gkick.

While I agree with you, this doesn't work if you are on a low pop server and your guild is the only one capable of handling content. It also depends on your server situation. Just like anything else, when running a guild, there are always several factors.

[Acheronia]

It's not my style or part of my character to kick people out of the guild. I find that kicking people (except for a major trouble maker) creates an uneasy atmosphere in the guild. Assholes are taken care of by the rest of the guildies and it's not long before they leave in any case.

Concerning under performers: I have a raider rank that people need to apply for on our forums. One of the conditions for raider rank is that they accept our raid rules (which isn't more than showing respect and decency towards other raiders). Another condition is a minimum stat requirement for each class/role and they're subject to a gear check on the armoury. Non-raiders are welcome to join raids if there's open spots for them, but they are subjected to the same evaluation that applies to pugs: check on the armoury and if they're in fighting fit form, they can join.

If people are not performing as well as they could in a raid, I'll have a word with them. The guildies know by now that I don't spoonfeed, but I will do some basic research for them and place links regarding their class on our forums. If it's in a raid and it needs to be addressed immediately, I'll mention it in raid chat. We have a stunning group of people who's always eager to help. If I would say "Dude, your dps is falling off the train! What's up?", I give him the oppurtunity to give his side of the story first, and most of the time the more experienced players are all happy to give advice on what issues he mentions. If he's being an ass about it and refuses to admit that his 1200dps is just not cutting it, he gets excluded from future raids until he cleans up his act or gets frustrated by lack of guild run invites and leaves the guild.

Recruiting: I don't advertise for recruiting at all. I keep an eye out for pugs that join the raid and it's the perfect place to see a player attitude. I've also adopted the philosophy to recruit people, not the character. You can upgrade your character, you can't upgrade an arsehole. Guildies also refer friends and in most cases it's a good compatibility check without even having to go through an interview.

I've said a lot (probably too much!) and it's by no means the only solution or the only correct opinion. It's just how I run things and how it works for me.

[Bung]

G/kick

[Satrina]

As soon as someone is accepted as a recruit, we move their application thread into a members only forum for people to comment on. When many members have posted that they find a recruit lacking and should be sent packing, it's much easier to make that decision. There is also no change in guild atmosphere, since everyone at least knows that other members found the person unacceptable.

Similarly, people know from the outset that if they don't perform they will be replaced. People who make it through our recruiting process are the ones that aren't raging douchebags and are not underperformers. They fit in with the guild and showed they can play, so it's unlikely that anyone will get gkicked unless they were obviously playing us during the recruit period. People who do start to slack will themsevles warming the waitlist unless absolutely necessary, and in extreme cases forcibly changed to non-raider status. That often serves as a wakeup call -- sometimes a wakeup call that they really didn't want a raiding guild after all.

It's definitely an aspect of how you set up your guild and the atmosphere you create. It's not for everyone, absolutely.

[deathforu]

i have read this post and generally see two different conclusions. do nothing or /gkick. i'm a what you would like to call a begining raider. i have researched all the fights, i know my class and constantly researching other things so that i can raid with confidence. i don't agree with spoonfeeding them anything. my old guild which i will always give credit for teaching me the basics of raiding didn't spoonfeed me anything. they gave me the sites and let me go to see what i would do. so my response to this is simple. give them the sites they need to go to in order to become good raiders. keep an eye on them. those that show improvement bring them on the raids. help them a little more with any probs they may have. work with them on certain fights if they continously have issues with it. trust me i had and still have probs with certain bosses in naxx but i know with hard work and a little patience i will get them sooner or later.

in the end remember its a game , but a game you pay for. i say give them a chance and tell them what they must do, show them the sites and then step back and watch them. if they are serious about raiding then they will do what is nessasary to get raid ready. if not. then either tell them that untill they become raid ready they will not be raiding with the team or /gkick thier lazy selfs to the curb.

[greendragonempire]

Underperformers don't get into raids and are given the option to remain in the guild as a non-raider until they get the time and/or gumption to put in the effort to earn a spot. This is made clear from the day they tryout with the guild, and is explicitly spelled out in our guild policies.

make a raid rank, solves all your problems

p.s. recruit till your raid rank is full

[Mortisia]

There are 3 types of player in this game

1: The Geeks: spend hours on EJ, Tankspot, Bosskillers etc reading up and come prepared
2: The Learners: Have the potential to be great but need taking under someones wing to nurture their talent.
3: The hangers on: Those who expect a free ride, dont see why they should take 5 mins to watch a video or read a strat, or grind a few consumables.

Unfortuantely alot of guilds enable type 3 to exist by pandering to them. Dishing out free consumables when they "forget". Spending 20 mins explaining tactics to them in a raid, telling them what buttons to press etc. Stop it! You are enabling their slackness at the expense of the rest of your raiders. It will only cause discontent and in the long term, good players will leave because they are sick of seeing freeloaders carried with the support of the guild.

[Kataztrophe]

If you want your guild to be successful progression-wise, you can't be lenient with people who under perform. If they keep dying or put out low numbers, give them a warning. If they continue to fail, they must be kicked. In my guild, everyone is replaceable (including myself, the MT), and we constantly recruit to find that star player that every GM and officer hopes they find when they look at new applications. We want our members to fight for their raid spots.

In six months my guild has grown from having about 15 people when Lich King hit, to getting the server first 10man 3D and Yogg 25 kill. We didn't even have 25 raiders to do Naxx when the other guilds on my server had cleared it the first two weeks of Lich King. With a tough recruitment process, core of exceptional players, and alot of hard work, we've beatin the odds and are now number one progressed. With new applicants, we analyze their WWS down to a T looking at EVERYTHING, and questioning on their gems and enchants. Apps have two weeks to prove their worth, and if they can't cut it, they are let go. Raid attendance is also a big issue. RL stuff happens which is fine, but if a pattern of not showing up occurs, they need to be replaced. No point in gearing up someone who's only there half the time.

The main problem I've seen in guilds that want to be in the top 3 of their server is that they will have a player who does not play up to standard, but because he is "cool" and "a nice guy/girl" he's kept in the raid since kicking him would be a "mean" thing to do. Unfortunately, you are only as strong as your weakest link, and have to think and make decisions for the good of the guild.

[Malatank]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but let me just stress this out, because today someone in my guild did that do me and I got kinda pissed:

Whatever you do, do it respectfully.

No need to be a jerk. You may lose great people(players) if you lose your temper unnecessarily.