+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Help! I'm totally fail as a tank

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1

    Help! I'm totally fail as a tank

    I played a lock in TBC and killed Muru with my guild and worked on KJ before RL came up and I had to give WoW a break. I came back from a few months of no playing and hit 80 about 10 days ago on my Pally. My guild carried me as ret through a 10 man naxx (my first time ever in Nax) and gave me a few tanking drops, I hit heroics hard and badge gear and basically am about to start tanking 25 mans with them. I guess I was spoiled on a destro lock because tanking on my pally is a million times harder.

    Gear is not a big issue for me, my threat rotation is fine, and I know when to blow cooldowns when needed. My problem is that I suck on fights that involve a lot of movement. I am :::gasp::: a keyboard turner. I OTed on Sartharian (1 drake) on 10 man and got hit by the lava waves at least once an attempt. I just couldn't see where they were coming from. I couldn't get my camera angles right and when I zoomed way out I couldnt see void zones, way in and I couldnt see where the lava was coming from.

    I'm working on improving and I have a few questions that are probably incredibly dumb but I'm hoping for some help:

    1) I use the stock UI and my keybindings are set on the 1-6 keys and I have the rest of the necessities bound to my G keys on my G15. I move myself with the WADS keys and strafe with Q and E. How do the rest of you do it? Use the mouse to move and position?

    2) What was driving me nuts on Sarth was trying not to turn my back on the drake but i could never move fast enough that way. If I turn my back to the mob will I be critable? I know its not ideal but is it catastrophic if necessary?

    3) How do I set up key bindings for my mouse? I'd like to set my wheel up to a couple bindings. Do I need an addon to do this?

    4) Is there a way to make my 969696 rotation easier with some kind of cast sequence macro? I've heard you can do that but Im not sure how it works? If I make 2 different macros like that (one for the 6s and one for the 9s) do I just alternate between the two and it does the casts in sequece? Do I need a different Mod to make that work?

    Sorry for the newb questions but any help given would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    248
    Mobility is the new name of the game bro.

    My advice? practice. Keep working on it. It's not about mouse movement, or keyboard movement, it's about a combination of the 2.

    On a side note, turning your back to the mob will not make you critable. It will however take parrys/blocks off of yer avoidance table, so you just get shmacked more.
    November 23, 2004 8:27:03 AM - Glomgore 10+ Years of tanking? Priceless

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Kuna, Idaho
    Posts
    955
    Some people like mouse key bindings. I prefer to just have simple move and steer type functions for my mouse.

    I recommend re-mapping your A and D keys to strafe left and right instead of turn. Strafing as a tank is usually what you you are trying to do, it's faster to look turn with your mouse anyway.

    With a standard keyboard, I put the actions I use most as 1-6, and everything else goes after that. I do recommend the Nostromo N52, if you haven't used one before you'll hate it for the first week but once you get used to it you'll be a lot more mobile and arguably faster. With a standard keyboard + mouse, it's helpful to use time doing dailies etc to refine your movement skills.

    As for macros, it's debatable. Maintankadin :: View Forum - Add-ons, UI, and Macros may have something that helps. I've preferred to not macro abilities because it gives me more precise control over what I'm doing. But to each their own.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    123
    I recommend using strafe instead of turning. It's bound to Q and E. Also set your mouse to "click to move" so when you hit your right mouse button you automatically face the mob your fighting.

    Do all of your dailies and questing strictly using your mouse to move to get some muscle memory in you mouse hand.

    It is not hard to relearn how to move with just a little practice and you can use the built in UI to do it all if you choose.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    29
    It's always encouraging to hear that a KB turner is mending their ways and learning how to mouseturn. Your game will improve as a result.

    Yes i just took a dig at KB turners, yes it is possible to be a successful tank and KB turn, but you will just have to work harder than a mouse turner.

    That said, I agree with the above poster, bind A and D to strafe and simply unbind your "turn left/right" keys all together.

    You are already at an advantage not being a button clicker (another play style I consider inferior, although many people enjoy great success clicking) in that your mouse is free to control movement/select targets rather than click abilities.

    As for binding stuff to the mousewheel, just go to the bind keys section of the options menu and click the button you wish to bind and scroll your wheel one way or the other. It should read mwheelup or mwheeldown depending on which way.

    As for the macro 96969, hop on over to
    maintankadin.failsafedesign.com
    and peruse the UI/Macro forum. Some nice macros have been posted (though I'd simply recommend practicing the rotation enough that you do not need a macro for it).

    You will find that using the mouse to look and move will greatly expand your ability to see/understand what is going on around you. Leftclick+drag will allow you, for instance, to remain facing Sartharion while looking backwards or looking down the length of the arena he fights in allowing easier views of where the lava waves are coming from.

    hope it helps!

  6. #6
    Since i play on multiple computers and configurations i try and keep as much to the defaults as possible. A few mods and thats it. After BC to wrath i gave up on the huge UI/keyboad/mouse configuration because it was a lot of effort to adapt to between releases.

    That being said, i have no problems using keyboard, mouse and clicking or hitting mapped keys.

    I find that people who have to mouse turn setup their fights to match that, but me being a mouser i simply group people differently and get everything in a tight pile and let dps go at it. Tab does everything i need and turning after i've grouped the mobs is futile. Most fights can be setup so if you need to run away from something you can run through it or use an ability to charge out to assist another player anyway.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Glomgore View Post
    On a side note, turning your back to the mob will not make you critable. It will however take parrys/blocks off of yer avoidance table, so you just get shmacked more.
    Are you sure about that I thought turning your back to a mob leaves you vulnerable to a critical hit. I recall getting crit by Mr. Bigglesworth on a few occasions while waiting a few raid members to get to Naxx. I like to chains of ice him then turn my back and see if he can kill me before everyone finally gets to the instance.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen
    Posts
    48
    what people said, learn to use mouse and keybinds to its fullest potential.

    The only way to do that is to set it up, and go tank every heroic you can think of to familiarise you with your new binds.

    And if you feel you are running low on easy to reach available buttons dont forget to utilize the mouse wheel (as Chunes allready pointed out). Bind you zoom to ctrl+ mouse wheel up/down and use mouse wheel up/down and shift+mouse wheel up/down to something you use a lot - those are really handy and gives you 4 more extremely easy binds to use.

    Also instead of using "r" as reply bind it to something useful since it's so easy reachable and move reply to "i" or something, i do that and after you chatted for 10 minutes its easy.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Firstprime View Post
    Are you sure about that I thought turning your back to a mob leaves you vulnerable to a critical hit. I recall getting crit by Mr. Bigglesworth on a few occasions while waiting a few raid members to get to Naxx. I like to chains of ice him then turn my back and see if he can kill me before everyone finally gets to the instance.
    Turning your back doesn't lower your defence.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    348
    Quote Originally Posted by Firstprime View Post
    Are you sure about that I thought turning your back to a mob leaves you vulnerable to a critical hit. I recall getting crit by Mr. Bigglesworth on a few occasions while waiting a few raid members to get to Naxx. I like to chains of ice him then turn my back and see if he can kill me before everyone finally gets to the instance.
    When you sit and someone hits you, you will get crit. But turning your back to mob just makes you unable to parry or dodge (players can't dodge hits from behind, unlike mobs).

  11. #11
    I use a combo of keyboard turn with mouse turn, on fights where im very stationary i use a keyboard, fights i have to slow walk keyboard, fights with alot of movement...mouse all the way. i like using a keyboard sometimes specially when i want to look around the room for other players and see what the OT is up to, Grob i have to keyboard, since i dont have to move him far, and i want to see where the rings are going and to make sure i dont have one behind me. Sarth has to be done with a mouse if on drakes, keyboard if your MT, i do it that way cuz your only moving side to side, but you need to see everything around to you know whats comming.

    As for learning how to do things like that, heroics all the way, the melee i take sometimes get angry cuz i move the boss alot, but i think its a good teaching tool to let them know that your gonna be moving in raids, why not now?. VH i do laps around the room with bosses, some places ill do spins, others i tank stationary, all depending on my mood, and how i feel about the healer and dps. Gundrak is where i have the most fun, since alot of the bosses i can move all over the place and keep my healer in the line of sight. Keeps everyone on their toes and keeps you in the mindset of "stay mobile"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Northern MN, USA
    Posts
    144
    It's about time I learned to use keybindings, but every heroic I run I find myself needing a new tool that I just don't have accessible, so I remap the binding.

    Case in point: 10-man vault (my first real (read: same level as I am) raid). I knew as OT I needed to taunt as soon as the MT gets grabbed, and my taunt was previously keybound to 8, which was a bitch to hit (often tagging Disarm at 7 or Last Stand at 9 instead). So I first mapped it to C (I keep my fingers on WASD usually). Then I realized after a Shield Crush that "C" was too hard to hit reliably for me, so I also mapped it to X (which, by the way, should NEVER remain as "Sit" for a tank!) and now I can tap whichever button that my finger touches without worrying about losing the boss!

    Next case, my "Oh Noes!" buttons. There are still times when I need to take care of myself, either soloing or in a PUG. Rather than try to keep hitting 9 for Last Stand, Shift-= for trinket, and clicking on Enraged Regeneration, I mapped them to 7, 8, and 9 on the number pad. Three clicks gives me first the 3025 health trinket, then Last Stand, then Enraged Regen which ticks for a grand. Next step is to bind Commanding Shout there for the HP boost before the trinket or Last Stand: ER (fitting acronym!) should tick for 1100+!

    Next steps are to map A and D to strafe. I'm not a keyboard turner (unless I'm lazy) and really should just do this to get it done with. That will allow me to have Q and E for Disarm and Rend, methinks, as they are keys that are uncomfortable to use right now.

    Heroic Strike went to mwheelup, Cleave to mwheeldown. Run has always been the 3rd mouse button (under my thumb). But those mentioned above are vital and already unconscious to me, and I can't believe I ever lived to 80 without them!

    TLDR: KEYBINDS ARE KING!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    178
    When I play I definitely use my keyboard to perform most actions and movement and my mouse is primarily a camera control. However, you do need to be able to switch between the mouse and keyboard for moving. One reason to switch from moving with your keyboard to your mouse is that you can do one hell of a turn around and run using the mouse.

    On a side note, and this may be so blatantly obvious that it wasn't mentioned, there is an option it the game to turn off the camera fall behind. That way when you do move the camera doesn't automatically move to the rear view of the character. I find that helps a ton in orientation when tanking a battle.

    I also believe macros are not the way to play your class. While they may be nice for performing a certain function like targeting another player and casting something or raising and dropping your divine shield for escaping a fear but I would hesitate to use it to replace the 96969 cast sequence simply for the fact that it prevents you from being more versatile in your tanking. Trust me on this one... you may think it makes sense mathematically that you are going to develop the most threat that way but guess what, If you ran around sticking solely to that casting sequence(which is what the macro would force you to do) I'm pretty sure you would be a fairly awful tank.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    104
    Do you play and first person shooters? If so, strafing/turning with your mouse really shouldn't be that big of a problem.

    If you don't, I would advise getting one and giving it a go for a few hours. It will improve your WoW reflexes dramatically.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5
    I keyboard turned all the way up to patch 3. I was playing a fury warrior at the time, never pvp'd and did consistent damage.

    So anyway when patch 3 came out and titans grip wasn't so viable I decided to go back to prot. I had been prot before and ot ssc / tk and mt hyjal whilst our main tank needed a break. The problem was I wasnt very good at tanking due to no mobility and average threat.

    So with the new expansion out due out very soon I decided to leap out of my comfort zone and start using my keyboard. Heres the hard part, "1" through to "=" as your default keybindings are awful in my opionion. If your using your mouse to move you should have one hand free to move around the board to use your bindings however this makes your mobility just as bad as clicking.

    So I decided to just do what was most comfortable binding f,g,r,v,t,z, Shift + f,g,r,v,t,z and 1 2 3 4 and when the time comes Shift + 1 2 3 4.

    OP just start of with the basics you always spam when tanking and put them close to your WASD or whatevers comfortable. Ease your way into it overtime and it will become natural.

    Im am very happy I made the move to binidings. I never die to anything movably avoidable, I never make mistakes, I always have high dps (I play fury mainly, prot tps is avg due to lack of practice) and I dont suck at pvp, well I do but I do my best.

  16. #16
    For heroics there is absolutely no need to customize your configuration so much that you spend that long to re-learn it.

    What makes a great tank isn't converting to mouse turning, its simply knowing what you can do, when you can do it and most importantly - when you should do it. Communicate, have fun and pay attention. Thats all.

    In five mans, you should have no problem charging into a mob, dropping your aoe, tab targeting as you backup a bit and dropping another aoe and having the entire mob in a nice stack so you can tab target and hit everything. If you use tab targeting and LEARN IT then there is absolutely NO NEED for mouse turn. If an enemy stuns you and gets behind you then aoe and backup and re-pack the group. Mouse turning is a quick way to get a poke in but as a tank you should control the situation and not react it to it.

    The reason i don't really care about mouse turn is mostly because its not worth the re-learning when you have abilities that will instantly put you where you need to be - either charging, taunting or intervening. Once you blow those you should be pulling in whatever you need back into your pack.

    PVP would be entirely different since you can't really learn how mobs work and use consistency to tank the environment to the best of your abilities. So PvP is definitely whatever is quickest - but then again as prot the best pvp combi is a 3-5 man pre-made or arena team where you can still use some of the pve techniques to own the bg's

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3
    I'm a KB turner and a clicker and 9 times out of 10 im complimented on my ability to hold threat and tank. I'm not the best but I know how to play my class so I feel just do what is comfortable to you. I must admit I would probaly gain 10% tps and maybe 15% dps by trying other methods, however I'm never out of range of the other tanks in our guild by any aspect.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by blahism View Post

    In five mans, you should have no problem charging into a mob, dropping your aoe, tab targeting as you backup a bit and dropping another aoe and having the entire mob in a nice stack so you can tab target and hit everything. If you use tab targeting and LEARN IT then there is absolutely NO NEED for mouse turn. If an enemy stuns you and gets behind you then aoe and backup and re-pack the group. Mouse turning is a quick way to get a poke in but as a tank you should control the situation and not react it to it.
    Correction, mouse turn 90 degrees so previous foreward/new rear mobs are on your sides WHILE you backup. Strictly backing up through the rear mob WILL take longer then a mouse turn+reverse.

    Perfect example is the blinking dragonkin in Violet Hold that blink behind you, turn reverse, win.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts