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Thread: MT Prio, does anyone use this?

  1. #1
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    MT Prio, does anyone use this?

    So, a bit of history first: I'm one of 4/5 tanks in my guild and also an officer/raidleader, we've cleared Naxx/Sarth 10man and had our first 25man raid to Naxx last night.

    Prior to the raid we had discussed loot and had agreed that a loot council could be difficult and unfair and because we're a 'casual' guild we didn't want the hassle of dkp. So we thought we'd opt for a common sense approach and hope that people would discuss items and look at the raid gear as a whole to get the best upgrades to the best candidates (yea yea, so it might not work like that in practice but I wanted to see what would happen). Ultimately a /roll would decide if a compromise wasn't reached.

    Anyway, last night, sadly I couldn't make the raid but I logged in half way through to find they had cleared two wings and were on Thaddius in the third, so pretty decent progress considering some ppl in guild are still in pre-heroic blues... Anyway, they kill thaddius and the paladin valorous set legs drop and the paladin MT says in /o 'ok, I need them, give to me' so I say something like 'Does some dps/healer not have some better upgrade, your gear is pretty ace atm, upgrades will come in time' and then the GM says 'well it's MT prio' (by MT prio I mean stacking all gear upgrades into a single tank). Doh. So that spawned a big discussion / arguement to which I got a lot of 'we don't want to talk about loot, it's not about the loot' from the GM, combined with him accusing me of being 'the only one who was annoyed about it' when I wasn't annoyed, just upset that it wasn't what we discussed. Well if it's not about loot why have MT prio, why not let everyone have a chance. After this I went on to go on about enrage timers, gearing up dps, and having 4/5 tanks all geared up and it seemed to get through and the agreement was that between the tanks a discussion would take place about who got what. After Thaddius they went Sartharion and killed him, and shortly after the raid ended one of the other tanks did a /gquit, which was entirely to do with the MT prio.

    It would be interesting to find out if any guilds use MT prio these days, I always thought it was a bit of a BWL 'we need a geared tank for Nefarian' kind of theory (or even 4piece dreadnaught in naxx for 4hm) and it had died out during the dps-heavy fights in TBC. The last time my guild raided more than 10man was in BWL in vanilla wow so the GM's mindset probably dates from then.

    I have this grand idea of the stats I want to work on, like 'I need new boots, ring, cloak, especially if they have defence as this is what I'm lacking, I want to hit the def cap through gear rather than gems so I can stack better gems. Anything else is really a side grade I don't care about and am happy to pass while others have worse in that slot. After achieving this I'd like to make towards the hit/expertise cap while maintaining other stats'. I'd love to have all the tanks (and dps/healing too, but I'm only really looking at the tanks here) do the same so we all know what each wants and can give gear drops to the right person. I guess I'm being too idealistic Does anyone have any experince of this approach? A simple way of making it work? I can't think of anything simple enough...
    Apa | 80 Female Tauren Warrior <3

  2. #2
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    First of all, 4 or 5 tanks is a lot. We had 3 when learning Naxx25.
    Stacking all gear on 1 tank is not a good idea, first of all, you put all your eggs in one basket, if that tank can't be online one day (or just leaves the guild / stop playing) you're in big trouble. Second, multiple bosses require more then 1 tank. Stacking gear on all 5 tanks is a bad idea, it's just too many people.

    We used MT prio on T7 gear. We used it for about 3-4 resets (Naxx was cleared the first reset I think).
    Our idea was that the bosses hit hard, and, while some bosses had enrage timers, there was no issue whatsoever to reach them in the first place. Better geared tanks benefit far more to the guild then one better geared dps. Tanks also usually have higher attendance then your average player.
    We had 2 warriors and 1 paladin on the "tank prio" for T7, and it didn't really give any issue. You also need a really good geared tank for Malygos and Sartharion (with drakes) so that helped us out a lot.

  3. #3
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    In T5 content we had maintank prio in our guild. In the total 5 warrior tanks came and went away. The druids really got the bad end of the stick for their tier gear there. Even though I'm a warrior and a tank now, I will for now be against any type of MT prio. It's not needed for the type of content. That, and we're going to be showered in epics anyhow.

    Maybe when really having your MT geared first makes that big of a difference again I'll reconsider but for now.....

  4. #4
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    Stacking all loot on one tank can be the downfall of a guild if that tank leaves/gquit etc. Stacking all loot on all tanks have a teoretical posibillity on better/faster progress. It's to elitist imo and not a lootsystem i would aggre on even if i'm a tank and would benefit of the system. I would prolly do a /gquit myself if something like that happened.

    Personaly i dont do raids for the loot, but getting new gear is also part of the fun and everyone should have an equal opertunity to get loot. I dont think it matters if its a mage or a tank that is wearing t7 gloves. What matter is that people know in witch order to push their buttons and not standing in fire. Having a tank with t7 gloves is way down on my priority list on what is needed for a sucsessfull boss atemt.

  5. #5
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    We used it in 40-man content. Depending on content in Ulduar, we're considering using it again. However, in the last 2 years, we have not (either in WoW or Age of Conan).

    It has good points and bad points. In our particular case, I have 100% attendance to guild raids, so the main negative of a tank potentially quitting is not an issue. But people do like getting items, and content atm simply does not warrant taking gear at the expense of a bit better cohesion.

    Use MT gearing only if you're very seriously pursuing progression raiding, and only if Ulduar proves that it can benefit the guild as a whole.

  6. #6
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    considering what ive seen drop in from bosses, giving priority isnt that big of an issue.

    That, and we're going to be showered in epics anyhow
    my last run on 25 naxx landed i believe 3 peices of tanking gear, two leg tokens, and two helm tokens (had one wing left to clear when i joined in). grand total of 7 pieces of tanking for just a small portion of the whole area. so gear comes easy enough. granted theres gonna be days when youll see very few pieces for a specific class. but with a, what, 2 1/2 day reset, its easy enough to get back in there and fish out more stuff.

  7. #7
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    I'm the so called MT of my guild, and I oppose MT prio, I always did. The guild is going to be in trouble if the well geared player leaves/quits/busy. Also, some bosses like Patch require multiple well geared tanks.
    Especially in LK, tanking seems easy and pretty forgiving even if your gear is not so good, I see no reason for such a prio - or any tank prio over dps/heal whatsoever.
    Last edited by Delicatesse; 12-29-2008 at 05:28 AM.

  8. #8
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    I dont like this system and I would not be in guild that used it, and I'm a tank. It may have had its benefits back in the day when most people in a 40 man wouldnt get a piece of loot for weeks... but those days are over.

    The theory was to allow guilds to progress faster. But tanks are nothing special in the current content, and if you need to spoon feed gear to them (or if they expect it) I would say they are suspect individuals and you're going to have trouble with them down the line. If you're in a casual guild, why worry about world class progression anyway?

    In terms of a nice simple loot system for casual raiding...? well I've seen more drama (like you describe) in casual guilds around loot, than in hardcore ones. Although a guild may be "causal", and people are "good friends" it doesnt mean people will instantly decide, entirely without selfish motive, who the gear should go to in order to benefit the guild as a whole. And walk away feeling blissfully content they did the right thing...

    I got disgusted with my casual guild because of a casual loot councily system. Dont kid yourself that loot isnt a big reason to raid for most players... and if they regularly dont get to raid, or don't get loot, they're gonna be moving on. Good luck!

  9. #9
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    We currently Have 1 Warrior, 1 Pally, 1 DK, And 1 Feral Druid we all have near perfect attendance and are always online for raids each tank got first dibs on tier set tokens as to make things that much easier. I find it advisable if you are interested in any serious raiding guild that prioritizing at least first set of drop to a tank in no way can hurt your guild and do nothing but help it progress (unless of coarse the jerk runs off with the loot a week later) but each guild is different and has there own views on what should be done with loot.

    i believe in Ulduar we will most likely do the same thing and Prioritize/Force first round of tier tokens to the tanks but as i said thats just what our guild does.

    Ive even stood by Tank priority even when i was a 2nd string tank hoping to get a raid spot i was never given special loot rights i always had to wait for my weight (our version of DKP) tp be high enough to get what i wanted, even back then i agreed with loot prio to tanks to me it seem wise even tho i wasn't the one benafiting from the rule, but like i said its up to each guild to decide what loot policy is best.
    Last edited by Murdog; 12-29-2008 at 06:46 AM.
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  10. #10
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    My guild sort of uses MT Priority at the same time we're also kind of using Healer Priority as well when it comes to token pieces. I've generally passed up the DK tokens to the druid healer as they've come around and sometimes the druid just doesn't want the token so we just have the DKs/Rogues/Mage's roll off unless its a token I specifically want for tanking.

    The way we've figured it we'd like to gear up the 2-3 tanks we have and the healers asap and then work on the dps which so far is working alright except we now have a shaman that has nearly two full offsets of gear due to lack of hunters in our raids lol.

  11. #11
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    In the little guild i'm in we don't do that. First off, we pug about half of our 10 mans as it is, so doing that would screw pugs which i don't agree on, I've left guilds because of that, where they have the idea that guildies get all drops first then if no one in the guild wants it pugs can roll... that just don't work for me

    As for Main tank priority, like others said, stacking just one tank is pointless, if he gets to geared and decides to quit, move to another guild, quit the game, miss a couple raids ect you're screwed. Just go with a "if needed, roll need" type deal and it works fine. Hopefully people are considerate enough to pass something if its not that big of an upgrade to a more needed person.

    Just last run bracers dropped that was just a tiny upgrade for me, I was main tank.. we had a DK in the group that was DPSing, but lvled planning on tanking but didn't quit have the gear for it yet, he was DPS in this specific raid, but i still passed since i knew he could use it more...

    Sounds to me like your guild is filled with selfish people.. its a game, everyone wants to get geared up and have fun, not just ONE PERSON, in this case the main tank.

    Rukiaz~prot pally,
    Windrunner.

  12. #12
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    Just a quick point - MT Gearing is NOT about feeding the ego or the greed of the Main tank.

    The main tank often takes 50% of raid damage, so if you can buff his avoidance by 3% or his armor by a few points it makes the jobs of the healers much easier. The Idea behind MT Gearing is to have the guild progress farther and faster becase STD (sudden tank death) means that the 24 other folks in the raid tend to die as well.

    To make it work you need a really dedicated tank and a smart raid that thinks long term
    vs Short term. Its roughest on the tanks that stand in the shadow of the one Uber geared tank - because once the MT has his 10 drops its not like they move to the front of the line .

    In guilds where most players want loot now, MT gearing does not make sense. You can progress at a totally reasonable pace by just randomizing loot distribution. Since folks can clear Naxx in blue gear why even bother thinking about it - its bound to piss off some people.

  13. #13
    Depends partially on what you mean by MT priority, or rather, how far you take it. Is it restricted to just tanking drops and non-set pieces, or does it extend to token drops (T7, Saph neck, etc)? I think both are fallacious, but in different ways.

    Giving absolutely everything to your MT leads to deficiencies in the raid elsewhere. Extensive raid damage and restrictive enrage timers made getting your healers and DPS gear much more important than it used to be. I'm having to speak primarily of TBC content here as current Wrath content isn't really gear-restrictive at all, but one trend I noticed in TBC is that the guilds who focused on gearing their MT at the expense of their DPS wound up having the most trouble on fights like Kael'thas or Naj'entus. Yeah, you've got a geared tank who doesn't take damage, but either your DPS can't bring it home or your healers can't keep the raid alive.

    Giving all non-set pieces to your MT leaves you with undergeared OT's, I think a bit more than many realize. You end up with your MT replacing gear (you gave him a sweet neckpiece in 10man, and now a new one in 25man) while the OT's scrape by with crafted/badge/heroic gear.

    Best in slot items? Maybe. My tanking team has always been pretty cool about that sort of thing, passing items to people that needed it the most.
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  14. #14
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    My 10 man raidgroup believes in spreading loot. First piece of tank gear that drops, my OT and I check to see who needs it more, and we'll either pass or roll off accordingly. Second piece that drops goes to the tank that lost the roll. once we're even, we roll off on the next drop.

    The only piece of "MT prio" gear we've had so far was my slayer of the lifeless, and that was a special case: my OT couldn't come, and so our holy pally respec'd prot for us. Since Prot is his offspec, we sat and talked about that for a minute before MLing it to me.

  15. #15
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    To me this made more sense in Pre-Naxx classic WoW, and to an extent T4 content in TBC and only really if you were trying to do some kind of progression as opposed to farming bosses. Early on, it was pretty important to have a well geared tank on Magtheridon. He hits really hard (especially in T4/blues, no badge gear) and there are environmental things (quake and cave in for example) that the healers had as distractions.

    If you work with a normal MT/OT setup, a round-robin approach to gear is not a bad way to do it. Both are getting upgrades as they drop, and one doesn't rapidly out-scale the other in gear quality.

    I think for guilds that are farming a place or not really pushing content that it's pretty close to unnecessary.

  16. #16
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    MT Prio just doesn't make sense now. While I do agree an upgrade of equal level benefits the guild more if given to a reliable tank than anybody else it's bad for morale. Even if you run a loot council I probably wouldn't automatically upgrade the tanks t7 to t7.5 if another reliable raid member was sitting in 3/5 t7 and could upgrade an iLvl 187 blue completing their 4 piece bonus and going from 187 > 213 I would let the tank wait. DKP systems work just fine. If your MT doesn't take the initiative to get the best possible gear outside of raid gear they probably shouldn't be your MT.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderhelm View Post
    Use MT gearing only if you're very seriously pursuing progression raiding, and only if Ulduar proves that it can benefit the guild as a whole.
    Exactly this.
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  18. #18
    Why?

    I've seen it make sense in two scenarios: when you don't plan on farming content, and moving onto the next tier of content, and so you need your tank geared to even touch that content. Obviously, that's not the case here, since we all have time to farm the current content before the next bit comes out.

    The second is when you lose a tank, and recruit another who is lacking the stats to tank your current content. A good example of this is Sun Well, when a guild deep in SW (stuck on M'uru, for example) would lose a tank, and recruited one with some BT gear and would have to gear them quickly to tank the content. But again, this isn't the case with current content.

    Personally, you can easily obtain decent enough stats to tank all current content through heroics, heroic badges, with a small amount of easily-obtained 10-man gear. If you're pursuing the right items and your gear is socketed and enchanted properly, the upgrades obtained will be nice, but won't make such a drastic difference.

    To be honest, if we're going to place priority on any class/role, I would say DPS need gear a lot more than tanks. Their stats scale a lot better with superior gear than ours do. A tank going from heroic/10-man gear to 25-man gear will gain a bit more survivability, but it won't be such drastic or obvious difference than it would be if a DPS got a few upgrades. And healers, too- healers are more efficient healers with gear, healers keep tanks alive, therefore, healers shouldn't be placed any lower than tanks.

    I personally hate MT priority. Any tank who feels like they deserve loot over other classes needs to drop the ego and realize raiding is a team effort. Tanks are a dime a dozen, you are NOT special. Get over yourselves.

  19. #19
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    We do use Main Tank prio. For us it's more a way to make sure that the one who is considered our best tank (both on reliabilty and actually game skill) is always suited to tank the specific boss for that progression fight.

    The limit of the Main Tank priority is on the brain of the tank. Maybe cause i've been offtank for long enough i know how demoralizing is when someone takes over your drops "just cause he can" and it's only a minor upgrade for him, while for you (or someone else) is a huge improvement, well... that's abusing of a priority.
    Personally, i've already passed about all T7 drops, and a major part of our tanking drops.
    Whenever we'll get a new Brutallus where the tank needs maximum gear, i'll consider getting full T7.25 over other people. Until then... i'll still be asking "so who wants this" in our tank channel.
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  20. #20
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    Our first question in the tank channel when tank items drop is: who needs this MOST? then we ask: who WANTS it most? most of the time, 2 out of 3 tanks pass it because it's the bigger upgrade for the 3rd. /roll in other cases. set items are distributed by whatever loot method is used atm, be it dkp or /roll (scheduled or fun raid)

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