Sapphiron Bugged ????
We had our first guild attempt of sapphiron 10 man and it went terribly bad. I main tank I stacked about 417 frost resistence but by doing so I dropped below the 540 def cap. I didn't seem to take too much damage, but our raid wide damage was terrible. We had the entire raid stacked to 400+ frost resistance and we wiped like crazy. Don't know if maybe frost res is bugged or we were doing something wrong. If anyone else has had this problem please lend some advice as it is greatly appreciated 8) .
If you're stacking frost resist, you're probably just hurting yourselves. Don't use any frost resist other than the paladin aura. Run three healers if you feel raid wide damage is too much. If you can't do it under those conditions, you may need more gear for your healers.
Ty for the info we'll try again before the reset.
I agree with Omok in that you shouldn't wear any Frost Resist. You're getting healspammed anyway, so the aura isn't that big a deal (and you have a ton of health if you're ice blocked anyway).
The rest of the raid on the other hand. 3 Pieces of Frost Resist gear isn't much to ask and it helps immensly, esp. if you run light on healers or undergeared healers.
The main tank does not need any frost resist. Everyone else in your raid should be wearing 2-3 pieces of Frost resist gear. As long as people don't get pwned by Blizzards and you're quick to pop cooldowns when needed, its a very simple fight. Good luck.
No offense, this is the first time I hear a raid wearing frost resist to kill Sapphiron. Although granted it's the 1 fight in all of naxx that is the most healing intensive. Bring 3-4 healers if you need imo. You can kill him easily with everyone in the raid having 0 frost resist.
Sapphiron is about execution. After many wipes, the time we did defeat Saph was perfect without any deaths. I think it's all about execution, and making sure your dps is not in any of the blizzards. The Blizzard is the main cause of deaths and wipes, with the ice blocks being a close second.
I'd suggest 1-2 pieces on 10-man, but overall it's doable without any frost resist gear.
It's really a fight that still feels quite tough even after doing it over and over again. He has quite a lot of hitpoints and half of the time you're not even dps'ing him but hiding behind iceblocks.
For reference, damage taken by main tank against Sapphiron 25 (basically the same as 10man version, just more damage)
75 Frost resistance just from GotW (some needed that Hundred Club achievement)
Physical ---- 631905 ----- 76 %
Frost ------ 160365 ------ 19 %
Shadow ----- 4234 ---------5 %
if the raid damage is really high, its probably people not moving from blizz fast enough etc. As others said, you dont need Frost res if your tanking.
make sure get those curses off asap, as that will just make the fight longer, and when she goes up, get everyone to move near the tank, so the ice blocks are not too spread.
We found on our run last night that Frost Resist isn't really necessary for the 10 man version as long as you avoid the Blizzard, de-curse the Life Drain and remember not to bunch up until after your second party member is frozen.
The Iceblock's are what tripped us up on our first few attempts. There's a nasty AOE that accompanies being frozen and if you're all bunched together the second one can easily drop your healers.
There's a lot of conflicting information, but here's the bottom line:
If you're having issues with players dying before healers run out of mana then, yes, continue using Frost Resist. If you're having issues with healers running out of mana and people dying, get the raid out of Frost Resist.
The encounter is 100% doable without a single Frost Resist item on the raid, but it's easier with a mix of Frost Resist on the raid.
Per the tank, if your gear is solid enough and you can maintain defense minimum, wear the frost resist. I've run both with and without it, and I'm satisfied with the results of wearing it.
I have and healed this encounter and I can tell you from the healering perspective I would not want my tank in any frost resist, ever. It is simply not needed as the frost damage is easily healed because it is a small constant value that I can account for. His melee and cleave are much bigger threats healing wise.
One thing that you may want to look out for is when saph lifts into the air peopel have a tendancy to run straight to the first ice tomb...however this will lead to wipes. You want to stay as spread out as possible until both ice tombs go out or you can loose several people to the aoe blast.
Dangers of Sapphiron with frost resist:
1. Bad healers go OOM
2. Fight lasts longer so more chances to screw up
3. Blizzard will still suck mana down if people sit in it
Sapphiron without frost resist:
1. Sitting in blizzard will usually kill people
2. People getting ice blocked too close to blizzards so the entire raid behind it gets hit while you wait for the frost breath will probably wipe you
As long as you keep both those things in mind the fight is tremendously easier without any frost resist on at all besides motw. The tank should definitely not be in frost resist, he hits hard. You usually don't eat Blizzards up there either.
We had the tank in normal tanking gear, and the dps and healers wore as much frost resist as we had.
For melee dps, if you wear the full frost resist crafted set and have a paladin aura up, you can ignore blizzards and be healed through. So the DPS you lose from the frost resist set you gain by not having to run away. It probably nets out even damage, but having the frost resist wins the tie breaker of being more tolerant of screwups.
I'm not sure for casters, but I know that our caster had a full resist set and lived through easy.
It was easy to tell who didn't have frost resist gear at the end of the fight. They were the ones being rezzed.
I'm curious what makes you think Sapphiron is bugged. From your post, I can gather that people were wearing frost resistance, and you wiped several times. You didn't say anything about how much damage was or was not being resisted, or anything that might suggest a bug in any way. Your conclusion seems to be 'we wiped, this is bugged' without even looking at a combat log or parse.
"We actually talked today about adding an item level 300 shirt that did absolutely nothing but mess with mods that attempt to boil down players to gear scores.
Having tanked the encounter, I can tell you that frost resist gear is a good way of reducing damage if you are already well geared in your other slots. The issue with Frost Resist gear is the complete lack of Strength, not the lack of survivability. If the tank has no problem meeting the defense minimum and they have a fully gemmed and enchanted frost set, it will reduce their damage in the encounter to wear it.
Originally Posted by Meeks
Definitely not true.
Originally Posted by Lyci
Never stand in the blizzards, regardless of your frost resistance unless you're 100% immune to all frost damage (which you won't be). What runs healers OOM isn't tank damage or the aura damage. It's the blizzard damage. Standing in the blizzard wastes tons of your healer's mana for no reason.
Sapph isn't a race, it's a retard-check. Retards stand in the blizzard.
Thank you so much ciderhelm and everyone for the wonderful tips we just downed sapphiron we dropped down to 1 tank 6 dps and 3 healers and no frost resist gear and dropped him with 3 minutes on enrage timer our 1st kill 8) .
Thats not entirely true, cause theres more to it.
Originally Posted by Ion
When Saph flies into the air people need to stay spread, yet within "running range" of each other to have time to get behind icetombs where ever they appear. Cause if people start to gather too soon, the icetomb causes splash dmg when it lands on people.
Then there's this about Icetomb being in a blizzard... You can still stay behind it by 20yards and be safe, as long as your still out of LOS (line of sight) of the breath.
Then there's this thing about tanks standing in Blizzard, moving to the farther end of his hitbox and then so close to his center your almost inside him, is like a difference of 10yards at least. And thats usually plenty of space to move around with out moving Saph himself.
I'm going to take back my previous comment. I've parsed out Sapphiron both with the Frost Resist and without it, and the difference is negligible (the higher Frost reduction was offset by taking more phyiscal). RNG may be responsible for it, so I'll try to get an update in a couple weeks with some hard data.
Regardless, as everyone's said, Frost Resist isn't necessary. It helps if your raid has it, but it's not necessary.