Death Knight Raid DPS Compendium (FR/BL/UH)

[Krenian]

One correction for the blood portion of your guide. You should be popping any cd you have for damage right before DRW, save hysteria, pots, trinkets, and anything else you use for right before DRW because it takes on the attributes you have at that time.

This is true and will be added when I do my 3.1 changes to the guide. I have to remember while writing guides that I usually assume about stuff like this because it's embedded in my head and not always seen out as a normal thing to do for people. I will probably add a section about our 51 point talents soon with when to use them and how to properly use them.

[Raenor]

Seems like a nice guide. Just have some questions though.
1) I have 2x Maexxna's Femur - Item - World of Warcraft , and I have Grasscutter - Item - World of Warcraft ... Which ones should I use for your dualwield builds? (think I'll be going with the 0/32/39 since that benefits 2 fast weapons).

[Osgiliath]

Seems like a nice guide. Just have some questions though.
1) I have 2x Maexxna's Femur - Item - World of Warcraft , and I have Grasscutter - Item - World of Warcraft ... Which ones should I use for your dualwield builds? (think I'll be going with the 0/32/39 since that benefits 2 fast weapons).

I would use Maexxna's Femur/Grasscutter Crasscutter has crit

[Krenian]

I'd be cautious about dual wielding right about now with 3.1 imminent.

As it stands now, I've yet to see any builds that can remotely put up damage like a two handed build right now. It's a little disconcerning but I'd not put too much weight on the dual wielding scenario just yet until more testings have been done about dual wielding. There are some promising looks but I'm not sure if they'll keep up.

If you must use one, I'd probably use a Grasscutter in one of the weapon slots due to the fact it has more promising stats than a second Femur. Yes, you get two stat increases with the Femur, but they're both stats that really aren't that great for a death knight in the first place. You will probably benefit more with the crit.

Honestly, they're both the same ILVL. If you have both Femurs already, don't waste your badges on the sword. If you have all three like i think you're insinuating, use the cutter. May as well have some variety and if you're human, you'll still get your expertise bonus with swords anyway.

[Caritas]

heya. awsome guide this one! i am a unholy dk atm 17/0/53, and thinking about trying frost out in the patch, an 3/51/15 spec wich gives me the ghoul, any rotation anyone could suggest? oh i have a two-hander if it gives any an idea. i am also thinking about getting 20 in blood to maximize two-hander weap dps but i just dont get the death rune mastery for a frost spec unless you wanna use icy thouch more, thanks in advance!

[Gorgrim Warcry]

The new pet spec is shaping up to be 0/50/21 with a rotation along the lines of.

BT
IT>OB>FS>OB>BS>FS dump
PS>OB>FS>OB>BS FS dump
Repeat

[Caritas]

thankies! so dumping howling blast over in favor of unholy blight?

[Krenian]

Interesting how Gorgrim says to go 50/21 and doesn't add UB in his rotation I kid

That would be, essentially, the reason. However I am not sure I'd like that personally. I found when I tried 50/21, it was less DPS than the standard 21/50 or 20/51. With Howling Blast being on a 10 second CD, in a DPS situation, it really has become a skill that people can simply skip over. This makes Rime pretty lackluster however it does still increase crit damage for Icy Touch and still enough of a reason to potentially put the points there.

I'll be pushing a 21/50 build most likely, focusing on this:

PS > IT > OB > BS > BS > FS Dump
PS > IT > OB > OB > FS dump.

Doesn't really change from the rotation I put up, and the build doesn't really change for that matter. I'll have to play with the calculator at one point and test it out but the Ghoul for some reason as well as the talents down the Unholy tree did not raise my DPS like the Blood tree does. It's interesting..

[Caritas]

thanks tony, i had been wondering if putting points in unholy rather then blood would increase the overall dps, but guess not

[Krenian]

I don't think so personally, but other people say it does.

That's the think about this class: there are specs that can work insanely well for some, yet not so well for others.

I cannot for the life of me get over 4k dps with an Unholy build. ever. I hate the rotation and the fact you have to wait for a proc to go off to see your dps go up. It's just me though.

[Caritas]

but stil you put 20 points in blood and you get death rune mastery, it doesnt really do any good in the rotation does it? why have the 3 points there?

[Gorgrim Warcry]

It doesnt take UB using UB over FS is a DPS loss. I only tested the spec briefly on the dummy and it preformed really well, for the few mins I spent testing it.

I got the information on the build from EJ. Apparently the guy running the frost dps thread over at EJ has raid tested this build and many others, this one is currently the single target dps king by almost 100 dps. I am not 100% sure on the point allocation he used as it is not posted but only includes a vague description.

-0/50/21 :: 5/5 Tundra Stalker, UH + 1/3 Outbreak, 1/2 Dirge.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9704

[anomanderake]

thanks for the help in the other thread tony i will try it out as soon as possible,
got it off the website elitist jerks but again thanks

[Krenian]

I don't know, EJ likes to theorize a lot. But it's theory and they have great ideas..and sometimes I just don't understand why they'd do that. As you saw, your rotation with their suggestion did not help so try out mine and see if it ups the damage. I can pull off a solid 5.2k Damage on PW with that rotation with my gear (Blasted BoH eludes me) so I'm thinking you'll be lower but a good amount higher than what you were.

[Gorgrim Warcry]

I have to say tony, you dont give EJ enough credit, they to a lot more than theorize. They back their numbers up with data and WMO/WWS it is quite a bit more than people sitting around talking about dpsing they are actually out there doing it.

[Krenian]

I will give credit when it's due and state that EJ is a great community site in which they really put a lot of work into it.

The problem is that there is a lot of mathematical equations that they put in that really over analyze the situation and that confuse more people than inform. That's why I tend to be careful with EJ and their information. Yes they practice it. Yes they have strong information depending on where you look. But the site itself, to me (A person who's math average was well..average), baffles me sometimes with equations in which just complicate the ideas.

I rather have a clear cut "This is how it is" than theorize and speak about how x+y(ZAB) type deal goes with.

I don't knock EJ because I think it's the devil. Hardly. Even I go to the site to take a quick look at some information for this and that. But I try to keep here at TS a more simple and to the point format. In my view it isn't the equations that matter but the results in which I can prove. My DPS stands strong enough to prove that i do know what i'm talking about when I state these things, and as such, with people who have tried and tested my methods, have seen increases in DPS.

I dunno, to each their own but I don't think I'd ever send a novice who's only looking for the right spec to play to EJ. It's not worth it. If you're trying to do a deep analysis of the class and must understand mechanics that are out there for that class..then I would tell you to look at EJ.

[iofe]

But I try to keep here at TS a more simple and to the point format.

And thank you for that. Coming from another "average" mathematician.

[Gorgrim Warcry]

Well I have to say I am less than average at math, and a few other subjects. So yeah I pretty much glaze over the one thread where the math geek really flexes his grey matter. That is far from the whole of the DK forum however.

Even though if one does not understand the math completely they should understand the parses that are posted that clearly show the theory and math being applied is correct more often than not. Such as PS being a DPS loss used in any current frost rotation. I would rather see people get the correct advice than flawed advice because one guy feels it does better DPS when a whole community has proven it does not.

[Krenian]

As one that's open to my own criticism because to be honest, I'm still somewhat baffled by the fact that I'm sitting around 4.8-5k as Frost and for some reason the same with dual wielding, I'm more than open to critiques and thoughts.

For the longest of while I have been trying to figure out why PS was not in the rotation as it's one unholy rune that sits out and by not using it you end up with this.

IT = Frost Rune
OB = FU Runes
BS = Blood Rune.

Now, now that I think about it, it does make a bit more sense because I failed to place in the fact that one uses Rune Tap to switch their blood rune into a death rune.

This allows for the second Obliterate to go off as it will consume the Death Rune.

So it looks more like so:

IT: Frost rune
OB: Frost/Unholy rune
OB: Unholy/Death Rune
BS: Blood Rune

Which equals all six runes. I will admit when I'm wrong and say that PS isn't required in a rotation. However coming towards 3.1, and PS's buff, I'm not so sure I want to guide people to start not using PS. Yes, right now, it could probably (with theory backing this up from EJ) be a DPS loss to do this. However I may as well instill some good practice into people instead of simply telling them to follow a rotation with PS included.

So yes, Gorgrim was right in the fact that PS at this current time, in it's current form, as gear gets better, is NOT worth putting in a rotation and much better to switch over to a PS'less striking rotation such as the one suggested. With this in mind and curiosity piqued, I'll take a shot at Thaddius with that rotation and give my results.

[Jayna]

Ok Tony i need your help really quick im a tank but i have all the DPS gear from 25mans and all the weapons BoH, Arm, CryptFB and 2 fast/fast one handers i want to be in the top 5 DPS can i get the best weapon, spec and rotation so i can show them i dont only tank please help