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Thread: Death Knight Raid DPS Compendium (FR/BL/UH)

  1. #661
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    Blood. The only spec that goes unholy is DW Unholy.

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  2. #662
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    Alright my next question, which Im also sure has been answered somewhere along the lines, but for said blood spec, wouldnt the disease glyph be rather valuable. it would allow you to change one of those HS into a pestilence to refresh runes and then just keep spamming the DS + HSx4 rotation.

  3. #663
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    Some people like the Disease glyph, I personally despise it. It's very very tight and makes it hard to keep your rotation going. If you can pull it off, by all means it works, but I don't like it. I just don't like that glyph at all.

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  4. #664
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    Hey there Krenian!

    First of all, your topic about DK Dps has tought me so so much about the class, it really got me excited about learning more about Deathknights and how they work in all different ways. Great job so far!

    Then to my question, while it might've been answered in the past, i haven't read it anywhere. Either way, here we go:

    I've been playing Blood dps for quite some time now, sitting (before the Hearth Strike nerf) around 4k dps single target in ulduar 10 gear. I think i've managed to get quite good at using my DK. But recently i've seen quite a switch in speccs/weapons/single-dualweilding Dk's etc. I was wondering how to optimize my dps, since i now have 4-set bonus tier 9 (conquest, not triumph, but still)..
    Now the new patch is out and the 4-set bonus of t9 isn't something only achieved by the hardcore raiding guilds but also 10-man semi-hardcore guilds like mine, we're going to get a chance for our deceases to crit. I am wondering in what way this influences the best specc to use, since it seems obvious that it's a great reason to start using Unholy. But i wouldn't know wether to use a 2h or Dual Weild, or what exact specc to use, in what particular way?
    I'd really apreciate your point of vieuw on this point, or if you've already posted information about these latest changes to DK dps, a link to that topic.

    Either way, all input is apreciated.

    Kind regards,

    Visc

  5. #665
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    I'm having a huge problem capping my hit rating. I'm slowly moving up the DPS gear charts but while most of my upgrade pieces are huge bonus' in str and ArP they get rid of the "equip" hit ratings and switch with expertise. Whats the deal? My hit right now is around 3 or 4%.

  6. #666
    All you can do is either use the lower gear for the hit, or get more new gear that has hit on it.

  7. #667
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    Gemming for Hit, isn't crazy if your overall stats are going up...

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  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visc View Post
    Hey there Krenian!

    First of all, your topic about DK Dps has tought me so so much about the class, it really got me excited about learning more about Deathknights and how they work in all different ways. Great job so far!

    Then to my question, while it might've been answered in the past, i haven't read it anywhere. Either way, here we go:

    I've been playing Blood dps for quite some time now, sitting (before the Hearth Strike nerf) around 4k dps single target in ulduar 10 gear. I think i've managed to get quite good at using my DK. But recently i've seen quite a switch in speccs/weapons/single-dualweilding Dk's etc. I was wondering how to optimize my dps, since i now have 4-set bonus tier 9 (conquest, not triumph, but still)..
    Now the new patch is out and the 4-set bonus of t9 isn't something only achieved by the hardcore raiding guilds but also 10-man semi-hardcore guilds like mine, we're going to get a chance for our deceases to crit. I am wondering in what way this influences the best specc to use, since it seems obvious that it's a great reason to start using Unholy. But i wouldn't know wether to use a 2h or Dual Weild, or what exact specc to use, in what particular way?
    I'd really apreciate your point of vieuw on this point, or if you've already posted information about these latest changes to DK dps, a link to that topic.

    Either way, all input is apreciated.

    Kind regards,

    Visc
    Well, I won't rehash exactly the information about specs or rotations, that's in the guide

    However, if you really want to look into what would be best, honestly the four piece tier 9 bonus helps any of the trees: Blood, Frost or Unholy. It might be a bit stronger in Unholy on the sole purpose it really heavily depends on your magic damage to do well, however it's still "Play what you want to play".

    If you're highly dependent on switching to Unholy, commonly accepted builds look like 3/13/55 builds that focus on Obliterate are good two handed candidates. Unholy DW is also spoken about in the guide so I won't touch that. There's no "particular" way to using the specs honestly. The guide covers the rotations pretty much. Some people use a priority system, I dislike the system personally and prefer a system where people can figure out easily and follow.

    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Is something that is similar to what you mostly see for the 3/13/55 build.

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  9. #669
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    Krenian, I too like everyone else would like to start out by saying thank you for creating and maintaining such an awesome forum. The information found here is valuable and has helped me tremendously.

    Currently I am raiding Ulduar 25 and ToC 25; my guild has been in these instances since they opened up. As of now I am geared pretty good, just started replacing my Ulduar gear with the new stuff. Anyway, for some reason I can't seem to get my dps to where it should be (comparable to other DK's). We just recruited another DK who is still in Ulduar 10 gear. He is BL/FR spec'd, I'm UH/BL spec'd; I typically raid in BL just as he does. For some reason our dps doesn't even come close, he out dps'es me like no tomorrow. My current rotation is as follow's... IT/PS/HSx2/DS/DC/DS/HSx4/DC, rinse and repeat. I do work in hysteria and DRW when it's up, usually between DS/HSx4.

    Usually I can pull between 3.2K-3.6K depending on the boss fight. My counter-part (and there are only 2 of us at raiding lvl), pulls 3.5-4.2K dps EASY! Now this is nothing new before UH got nerfed, there were 3 DK's and we were all pretty much spec'd and geared the same. I got whooped on meters all the time, the other 2 DK's have since left the game. So out of all that I'm wondering if my rotation is jacked? I've been following this thread since its inception. My rotation is not much different from your guide; I'm not looking for fix it answer maybe just some advice on tweaking. I'm way over-cap on hit, under cap on expertise, and crit. Though I think they are fine, especially expertise because I'm behind the boss anyway.

    My armory -- Luvutodeath

    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. oh by the way I was about a program called face smasher. Apparently it suggests your next rotation to optimize dps, thinking about trying that out; have you heard of it?

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvutodeath View Post
    Krenian, I too like everyone else would like to start out by saying thank you for creating and maintaining such an awesome forum. The information found here is valuable and has helped me tremendously.

    Currently I am raiding Ulduar 25 and ToC 25; my guild has been in these instances since they opened up. As of now I am geared pretty good, just started replacing my Ulduar gear with the new stuff. Anyway, for some reason I can't seem to get my dps to where it should be (comparable to other DK's). We just recruited another DK who is still in Ulduar 10 gear. He is BL/FR spec'd, I'm UH/BL spec'd; I typically raid in BL just as he does. For some reason our dps doesn't even come close, he out dps'es me like no tomorrow. My current rotation is as follow's... IT/PS/HSx2/DS/DC/DS/HSx4/DC, rinse and repeat. I do work in hysteria and DRW when it's up, usually between DS/HSx4.

    Usually I can pull between 3.2K-3.6K depending on the boss fight. My counter-part (and there are only 2 of us at raiding lvl), pulls 3.5-4.2K dps EASY! Now this is nothing new before UH got nerfed, there were 3 DK's and we were all pretty much spec'd and geared the same. I got whooped on meters all the time, the other 2 DK's have since left the game. So out of all that I'm wondering if my rotation is jacked? I've been following this thread since its inception. My rotation is not much different from your guide; I'm not looking for fix it answer maybe just some advice on tweaking. I'm way over-cap on hit, under cap on expertise, and crit. Though I think they are fine, especially expertise because I'm behind the boss anyway.

    My armory -- Luvutodeath

    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. oh by the way I was about a program called face smasher. Apparently it suggests your next rotation to optimize dps, thinking about trying that out; have you heard of it?

    I would first suggest that you only activate DRW/Hysteria before your rotation and not during. It tends to mess up your rotation and your damage potential you can do during the DRW is up is going to be slighted due to the fact you're going to hit with HS only twice before your diseases are off. That'd be my first choice. (If this is what you are doing, kudos but the way you were explaining it, it sounded like you were doing it during your rotation which really staggers your rotation as Blood's already tight.

    Secondly, your hit is absurdly high. 490, jebus, boy! That's a lil overdone. You're nearly double of what you should be at (263 is the minimum, and around the 350s for the Spell hit cap.). Drop some of your hit, you're hurting your other stats by focusing on Hit so much. If you can get another trinket other than the Pyrite Infuser, that'd be a good start to look at.

    Some of your gems are left to be questioned. The 24 stamina one is a big one that I go hrm at because you're basically getting no DPS increase. You have the crit one, so I understand that you want to get your meta gem, but you're better off having two purple gems (Just like your gloves have) than a purple and a blue. You'll get an extra 16 Ap out of it.

    Some of your enchants are lower grade. Get that 10+ Stat, that's an extra 4ap (I know, that's just nitpicking but i'm giving you the lowdown )

    A note about your crafts... If you're actually looking to min/max? I dislike your professions. Now I'm not one to critique about professions (My JC isn't capped out for one..) But Alchemy will give you those extra flasks, yes, but Herbalism really does nothing for you other than feed your alchemy. If you want the best out of your DPS, you might wanna go the very very expensive route of JC/BS. But that would require you to drop all of your professions. If that's not something you want to do, then by all means you don't need to. However JC alone will give you something that most professions won't: 3 gems that give you 14 extra strength, which translates to 28 ap, which then translates to three times that amount, or 64 AP out of three gems. BS will give you two extra slots for 20 strength gems which is 80 AP on it's own. See where i'm getting to? You're missing on over 100 ap just from crafting itself. Now I don't know how much the extra flask gives you, but unless you're always chugging flasks, this static 100+ AP is enough to give you incentive.

    Bout all I can see. Just keep at it, you'll get there. Practice rotations, know when to summon your ghoul even if he's not a pet at the right times and utilize Army of the Dead when needed.

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  11. #671
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    Hey kreinian the new way to play uh is scorge strike all the way. When 3.2.2 hit and they took oblit away from dirge, they nerfed the damage capable from the uh-oblit specs. The 3-13-55 spec you listed up above should be used as a dw-uh build and instead of taking ahnialliaton you take Nerves of Cold steel and pick up the scourge strike talents in uh. So it should look like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft The new way to go uh 2h is to use a 16/0/55 spec and dont pick up reaping or epidemic. So the build would look like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...goSs,FQp,10482 The reason you dont pick up reaping anymore is because the 2bs equal more than 1ss so the 2 added death runes dont add any dps. I dont quite know how epidemic is a decrease, but im guessing it has to do with reaping being inadequate.

  12. #672
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    Great blood build, you hit the rotation and build right on the head.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krenian View Post
    I would first suggest that you only activate DRW/Hysteria before your rotation and not during. It tends to mess up your rotation and your damage potential you can do during the DRW is up is going to be slighted due to the fact you're going to hit with HS only twice before your diseases are off. That'd be my first choice. (If this is what you are doing, kudos but the way you were explaining it, it sounded like you were doing it during your rotation which really staggers your rotation as Blood's already tight.

    Secondly, your hit is absurdly high. 490, jebus, boy! That's a lil overdone. You're nearly double of what you should be at (263 is the minimum, and around the 350s for the Spell hit cap.). Drop some of your hit, you're hurting your other stats by focusing on Hit so much. If you can get another trinket other than the Pyrite Infuser, that'd be a good start to look at.

    Some of your gems are left to be questioned. The 24 stamina one is a big one that I go hrm at because you're basically getting no DPS increase. You have the crit one, so I understand that you want to get your meta gem, but you're better off having two purple gems (Just like your gloves have) than a purple and a blue. You'll get an extra 16 Ap out of it.

    Some of your enchants are lower grade. Get that 10+ Stat, that's an extra 4ap (I know, that's just nitpicking but i'm giving you the lowdown )

    A note about your crafts... If you're actually looking to min/max? I dislike your professions. Now I'm not one to critique about professions (My JC isn't capped out for one..) But Alchemy will give you those extra flasks, yes, but Herbalism really does nothing for you other than feed your alchemy. If you want the best out of your DPS, you might wanna go the very very expensive route of JC/BS. But that would require you to drop all of your professions. If that's not something you want to do, then by all means you don't need to. However JC alone will give you something that most professions won't: 3 gems that give you 14 extra strength, which translates to 28 ap, which then translates to three times that amount, or 64 AP out of three gems. BS will give you two extra slots for 20 strength gems which is 80 AP on it's own. See where i'm getting to? You're missing on over 100 ap just from crafting itself. Now I don't know how much the extra flask gives you, but unless you're always chugging flasks, this static 100+ AP is enough to give you incentive.

    Bout all I can see. Just keep at it, you'll get there. Practice rotations, know when to summon your ghoul even if he's not a pet at the right times and utilize Army of the Dead when needed.

    Hey thanks so much... never thought of using DRW/HYS earlier on, you are correct I pop those two mid way through the rotation. JC never even knew you get the extra points on gems, I have no problem dropping Herbs. FYI I get 180 AP for 2hrs off flask of endless rage.

    Again I can't say thank you enough... your advise will certainly not be wasted; you got looking into a different direction.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrddraak View Post
    Hey kreinian the new way to play uh is scorge strike all the way. When 3.2.2 hit and they took oblit away from dirge, they nerfed the damage capable from the uh-oblit specs. The 3-13-55 spec you listed up above should be used as a dw-uh build and instead of taking ahnialliaton you take Nerves of Cold steel and pick up the scourge strike talents in uh. So it should look like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft The new way to go uh 2h is to use a 16/0/55 spec and dont pick up reaping or epidemic. So the build would look like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...goSs,FQp,10482 The reason you dont pick up reaping anymore is because the 2bs equal more than 1ss so the 2 added death runes dont add any dps. I dont quite know how epidemic is a decrease, but im guessing it has to do with reaping being inadequate.
    Interesting. However it's awfully dumb that two Blood Strikes are better than a Scourge Strike. Makes for one pitiful bloody FU strike.

    I wonder if instead of getting Scourge Strike, you get Annihilation and go with a 3/13/55 build with Obliterate and no Reaping...Least your FU would do more damage. I gather it's probably a manner of perspective.

    Expect either a nerf to Blood Strike or they seriously need to rework Scourge Strike.

    A note about the guide: I've pretty much stopped playing WoW however I'm going to keep track of some things through EJ and update it as it goes. At this point, I have little to no inclination to play the game anymore so you can consider me 'retired'. However this information shouldn't change too much until 3.3 where there may be some changes. At that point, I will regard the changes and try to write something that's adequate.

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  15. #675
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    Well thats sad to see you "retire." I hate seeing some of the good people leave the game. But thats another story for another day
    On the topic of scourge strike i really hope they change it up because they nerfed the crap out of it for pve and pvp (i guess its still ok). But who knows maybe the way to play unholy is a shorter rotation than blood or frost. Who knows

  16. #676
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    Hey Luvutodeath, i have a few suggestions for you. After reviewing your gear I knowticed a few things... Now if you really wanna maximize your DPS you'll have to spend a few coins and a lil of your time. Here is what I see:
    1. Get Epic gems. No more Blue gems, Epic gems = more dps. Only Gem strength... UNLESS you are under hit or exp cap. Remember Hit and Exp are more important. If you need to gem for your meta gem, then do so with e strength/stam one, other then that no other stat is more important then strength (Other then hit/exp). So to get to the point, do not gem for crit, its a waste, and dont gem to match socket bonuses unless ih just happens to fit in.
    2. Get your Sons of the Hodir rep up and get your shoulders enchanted. Your missing atk power there, and also stats that you dont care enough to grind our a few dailies a day to boost your DPS.
    3. Max out your enchants. This has already been stated, but always use the best enchants. +8 stats is old and cheap, get +10 stats.
    4. Save up some gold, about 4-5k and buy a Nobels trinket deck, its one of the best melee trinkets in the game. That alone will sky rocket your DMG.
    5. Save up some Badges of Triumph and buy the new sigil. It's an awesome sigil and yours is kinda out dated. 180 strength for 20 is a great addition to your DPS.
    6. As stated, new professions is reasonable. If you dont wanna drop Alchamy, then at least drop Herb and lvl JC. On my server you can grind JC in about 2 hours for about 2k gold, all mats off the AH. 1-400
    7. Start replacing some of your Hit gear with gear that has better melee stats, as stated, you are WAY over hit cap. Also try getting some new trinkets, i know these are not easy to come by, but some of the trinkets out there ase well worth the effort, such as the crazy ArP trinket from 10 man ULD Thorium hard mode.
    8. This rotation might help you out:
    (As your running into a fight summon your ghoul)
    IT>PS>HSx2>DS>ONE Deathcoil (No more save any additional RP)
    DS>HSx4 (At this point your RP should be about full, THIS is when you max out your DPS, hit Hysteria and DRB back to back right after your first rotation, then go into your normal rotation.)
    After you have suscessfully did your first rotation and poped your Hysteria and DRB, then just keep at your rotations, resummon your ghoul as SOON as it is off cool down and always try to pop you DRB right after a rotation. When popping DRB at the beginning of a rotation, you are putting FOUR diseases on your enemy instead of only two, giving you alot more dmg per hit since most of your attacks say + XXX more dmg per disease the deathknight has on the target. Also, never forget that you have AofD, im one DK who LOVES my lil army of slaves and pops it all the time.

    Hopes this helps.

  17. #677
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    Gz on quiting wow : ) all best mate...

  18. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krenian View Post
    I would first suggest that you only activate DRW/Hysteria before your rotation and not during. It tends to mess up your rotation and your damage potential you can do during the DRW is up is going to be slighted due to the fact you're going to hit with HS only twice before your diseases are off. That'd be my first choice. (If this is what you are doing, kudos but the way you were explaining it, it sounded like you were doing it during your rotation which really staggers your rotation as Blood's already tight.
    There are ways around this to better max the dps you can do during that initial burst at the beggining of the fight. There's really no sense in popping Hysteria and DRW before the fight starts and wasting the first two hits on getting diseases up, not to mention you wont have any of your procs up. So by the time you get your initial rotation going and are finally ready to start nuking, DRW has already fallen off.

    Haste pots on progression fights makes this easier, heroism too (obviously) but what I've found works best (this is going off reg/heroic 25 Beasts) is pop your ghoul before you engage, then your haste pot (army too but it's not always availible, though it would be army, then ghoul, then haste), then do as follows.

    IT>PS>HS>HS>DS
    now everything is on about 4-6 seconds cooldown, hit Empower Rune Weapon to clear it all, pop Hysteria+DRW during the GCD from ERW and go to town.

    Now you have diseases up, your runes are completely clear, just about everything is or will be procced AND you have hysteria and DRW going fresh, being used only for HS's, DS's and DC's until you have to refresh diseases (which should be near the end of DRW).

    On Gormok using the haste pot (no heroism) and without army I topped 11k burst dps but typically stayed above 10k burst (more with army obviously) and sustained 8k+ dps. Sometimes less, sometimes more because Blood dps has too many variables to be so consistant.

  19. #679
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    =[[[ dont quit kren! dont fight the urge to waste ur life! i haven't yet
    Thanks for all the time you've put into this guide. You're a true hero to the DK class =]


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  20. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythonos View Post

    IT>PS>HS>HS>DS
    now everything is on about 4-6 seconds cooldown, hit Empower Rune Weapon to clear it all, pop Hysteria+DRW during the GCD from ERW and go to town.
    I've had to do this much more often now adays... not getting enuff RP for starting it right off the bat, and I used to wait for buttlust to do it, but i noticed a big difference from starting off with CD's and using right when they get off cd. ERW is a godsend.

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