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Thread: Death Knight Raid DPS Compendium (FR/BL/UH)

  1. #241
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    Well yeah, you forget Bladed Armor which gives me a ton of AP for the armor I'm wearing. And yes, it's nearly 800 AP more

    That's the big thing about Blood: It boosts your AP well enough and pushes your pure physical damage high as hell. That's the biggest thing about Blood and that's why I tend to use my Mirror of Truth over my Fury of the Five flights: 80 crit and I don't necessarily need the constant 320 ap. I'll live with my 1k AP a proc.

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  2. #242
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    what rotation are you using for blood right now ?

  3. #243
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    IT, PS, HSx2, DS, DC dump

    Followed by:

    HSx4, DS, DC dump.

    On the first rotation, your HS will be on CD before you can start your rotation. It's normal because you're waiting for your Blood runes to get off CD. But this benefits your Death Strike bonus in the end much more instead of hitting for a lower DS due to no RP. If you don't like the feel to it, switch DS ahead of HS and just go with a smoother rotation.

    To edit this: Apparently Blood Strike, glyphed, on paper, hits harder than our HS does. I'll have to test that out sometime this week.

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  4. #244
    I have a question about that, how do you activate the Blood Strike glyph? Is it part of a normal rotation that I'm just missing or something else?

  5. #245
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    You don't, you make the other individuals in your raid activate it for you. Snares like Slow or anything that slows down movement acts like a snare. Therefore in a 25 man setting, you should have at least one class that's doing so.

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  6. #246
    Ahhh, not something I'll likely end up playing with then, since I can't count on anything in particular to happen.

  7. #247
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    Yeah you have to be careful and ensure there's some sort of snare. In 10 Man, it's a little harder to get a snare (I thought Thunderclap was considered a snare, turns out it isn't. o.O). In 25 man, you're bound to have an arcane mage casting slow for extra damage I figure.

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  8. #248
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    Added Blood 3.1 information. Next up: Frost. And I already have a couple of things to watch for in Frost.

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  9. #249
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    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

    What is this?

    A build I wanna try out.

    Why do you have it up here?

    Because I like writing things in my guides to remind me that I have to test something out.

    What's the point of this talent build?

    To see if my crazy theory could work. Here's what I'm thinking:

    No matter what, your strikes in a dual wield situation are terrible. Tri-Spec also has been the first type of dual wielding build we found before 32/39 and 44/27 came out. With this in mind, I want to see if a Tri-Build still could work out. Here's the theory behind this:

    With IT having been nerfed the way it has, it now depends on how good of a coefficient Blood Boil versus IT will have. However if I presume correctly, right now I would wager Blood Boil with diseases up > IT. I could be wrong here so don't gut me on this.

    With this in mind, I wanna go deep enough in Blood to get the Imp BB talent. This will help out with it's damage. Furthermore, I wanna go deep in Unholy to get Impurity which is always a great AP/Spell Damage conversion for all your skills. Finally, I want to minimize the amount of 'Strike' damage abilities i use, therefore the following rotation is going to be considered (Keep in mind, it is a VERY weird rotation and will be explained afterwards

    Start:

    DS > DS > BB > BB > DC dump

    Rotation 2:

    PS > IT > BBx4 > DC dump

    Like I said...very weird rotation right? No diseases to start. The reason behind this is that I want to convert all my FUs into Death Runes so I don't need to worry about it, just like the same concept in Blood for Heart Strike and wanting to use it more often than your FU attacks.

    So with that, Death Strike puts your runes into Death Runes. Now come your refresh time, you will have six potential blood runes (4 death runes and 2 blood runs) to play with. Now with BB hitting harder with diseases, you set up your diseases with the first two runes. You then use BB as your last four runes to do the most damage possible. Once that's done, you dump afterwards.

    Now once you get your rotation back at the start, your Death Strikes will potentially still have Disease Time to give you those heals that the attack gives you. Gives you a bit of sustainability. Unfortunately, you won't get the full rotation down before your BBs I think, which means they won't benefit from the disease increase. Potentially pulling two points in Unholy from somewhere and adding it to Epidemic, heck even one point, would be probably a good idea. (I'm thinking quite possibly one point from either Necrosis or BCB.). This will make your diseases expire around the Death Coil Dump so you won't really have anything to worry about in that manner and you'll have to refresh either way come the second rotation.

    It's an interesting concept to think about.

    WHY!? Dual wielding is dead, ffs! Leave it alone!

    Trust me, I am fairly aware of the neutering that Dual Wielding has been given. It isn't viable and this spec could quite potentially blow in my face and totally fail. However two things:

    1) There are still a fair amount of people who are stubborn and don't want to use a two hander and keep dual wielding, however they're not sure how to go. They think going 51 points in Unholy's the best for the Gargoyle. However true that is, you're using an FU attack in Scourge Strike that's weapon damage base.

    2) I, as an individual that explores every alternative, am in the mood to see what could be done about Dual Wielding. We'll have to experiment and see what happens right?

    You're absolutely @*#&$# crazy!

    So I've been told!
    Last edited by Krenian; 04-18-2009 at 01:01 PM.

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  10. #250
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    Hey guys i recently got dual spec and some drops from ulduar (Stormedge - Item - World of Warcraft , Strength of the Automaton - Item - World of Warcraft , Power Enhancing Loop - Item - World of Warcraft , and a cape called Drape of Fuming Anger from Ignis-10 which I can't find on WoWHead: ) which have improved my dps (str on rings and cloaks FTW! ^^) and have been testing 2 specs, Blood: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and Unholy: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and if u want to check my stats: The World of Warcraft Armory

    Ive tested both these specs on dummies and various ulduar bosses, mainly XT-002 25man, Hodir 10man and Mimiron 10man and I've found Unholy is far superior to Blood by about 500-700 dps all the time. However as I mentioned in a previous post my fellow guildy acquired the sigil from XT and is now frost and doing insane dmg. Just wanted to let you guys know my findings on these specs in 3.1

    PS. Krenian you ARE @#&%*# crazy, but i saw you are frost 2h at the moment please let us know how its going as I am skint after dual speccing and cant afford respeccs or the insane prices of glyphs at the moment.

  11. #251
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    I was asked to cover the haste rating for an enhance shaman for our raids so I may stay Frost for a lil while depending on what happens. Which means I may not be able to do my unholy testing like i wanted to for a lil while.

    Interesting look at the raiding scenario involving Blood. Who knows, it might be quite true about Blood lacking in DPS, however that's for testings to be done. Which will be done at one point or another when I have the chance to.

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  12. #252
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    Although some people brought up an interesting topic in my guild. Because of the % strength buffs in Blood and the itemization on tier 8/8.5 and other ulduar drops it may be that blood might scale past the other two specs. Of course we can't test this until someone has that gear ^^ but nevertheless Blizzard might have buffed blood after all

  13. #253
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    Let me assure everyone of one thing and one thing clearly:

    In no way am I going to say which one is the 'best' spec. This is not the point of the guide. The guide is to highlight what spec works how. It is a guide, not a min/max. I do that on my own and and decide what's best.

    In the end though, they did good with Blood.

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  14. #254
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    About the crazy build

    I am one of those stubborn people that you talked about a few posts earleir that won't give up dual wielding (seriously, I quit my dk at lvl 60 and only leveld him to 80 when I specced for dual wield+ghoul...). That build you showed over there looks interesting and since you dont have time testing it out right now, I thought I might as well do it and tell you what I found. Unfortunatly, not everyone has such good gear as you do Krenian, but I guess I can still test the build.
    I only want to know 1 thing before I test the build, what weapons are you suggesting for dual wielding with this build? 2 fast weapons, slow and fast, or 2 slows (I'm guessing that atleast the main hand will be slow because of death strike, but I wanna make sure)?Also, which sigil do you suggest to use? Let me know please so I could check the build out =).

    Bladen
    Last edited by Bladen; 04-19-2009 at 04:35 AM.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostro View Post
    Hey guys i recently got dual spec and some drops from ulduar (Stormedge - Item - World of Warcraft , Strength of the Automaton - Item - World of Warcraft , Power Enhancing Loop - Item - World of Warcraft , and a cape called Drape of Fuming Anger from Ignis-10 which I can't find on WoWHead: ) which have improved my dps (str on rings and cloaks FTW! ^^) and have been testing 2 specs, Blood: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and Unholy: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and if u want to check my stats: The World of Warcraft Armory

    Ive tested both these specs on dummies and various ulduar bosses, mainly XT-002 25man, Hodir 10man and Mimiron 10man and I've found Unholy is far superior to Blood by about 500-700 dps all the time. However as I mentioned in a previous post my fellow guildy acquired the sigil from XT and is now frost and doing insane dmg. Just wanted to let you guys know my findings on these specs in 3.1

    PS. Krenian you ARE @#&%*# crazy, but i saw you are frost 2h at the moment please let us know how its going as I am skint after dual speccing and cant afford respeccs or the insane prices of glyphs at the moment.
    what is your dps rotation as unholy? thanks

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladen View Post
    I am one of those stubborn people that you talked about a few posts earleir that won't give up dual wielding (seriously, I quit my dk at lvl 60 and only leveld him to 80 when I specced for dual wield+ghoul...). That build you showed over there looks interesting and since you dont have time testing it out right now, I thought I might as well do it and tell you what I found. Unfortunatly, not everyone has such good gear as you do Krenian, but I guess I can still test the build.
    I only want to know 1 thing before I test the build, what weapons are you suggesting for dual wielding with this build? 2 fast weapons, slow and fast, or 2 slows (I'm guessing that atleast the main hand will be slow because of death strike, but I wanna make sure)?Also, which sigil do you suggest to use? Let me know please so I could check the build out =).

    Bladen
    If you really wanna try it out, be my guest but by reading Armstrong's post, BB has a lower coefficient than IT so you would rather replace it with six ITs instead of BBs. And seeing how IT was neutered in damage, I honestly don't know if it's worth it anymore.

    But if you want to try it, try with both BB and IT and find out how it does. As for weapon selection, I don't think it really matters if you go slow or fast. Fast helps with BCB and Necrosis white damage and slow uses more oomph to your FU of choice. If you want to, try both. My guess is that Slow/Fast may win out but who knows. Both could come at the same time. I do have a Slow/Fast weapon in the bank I just don't know if I will have the opportunity to actually test a dual wield build out while we're progressing.

    And for Sigil, if you're trying with BB, whether you try with the Sigil of Awareness or the Sigil of Frozen Conscious, I don't really think it matters. Both attacks are only used once so I don't think it'll be worth it. However if you get the Sigil of the Vengeful Heart, then you might see some interesting numbers due to the fact your DCs are going to be stronger.

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  17. #257
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    Re:about the crazy build

    Well I think that the sigil I have the easiest acess to obviously is the icy touch sigil, but since it is bearly used and the build doesn't involve killing machine I better go with blood boil.
    Therefore, I believe that getting a DC enhancing sigil will be the best idea, unfortunatly, I don't have acess yet to the Ulduar sigil, so I'll go with another DC enhancing sigil for now. I'll spec for that build when I get a more decent slow weapon, and I'll let you know the results.

    Bladen

  18. #258
    I've been rolling around the idea in the back of my head that the real way to make a DW build work is to really focus on DC damage, and by extension work on making RP generation your biggest concern from runes, I'm thinking maybe something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

    I'm not quite sure what the rotation would be, on the second half, I dunno whether you'd get enough RP to DC out your diseases with Oblit x2 or not.

  19. #259
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    I think that it may be one of those gimmick builds that is destined for failure.

    I have been running 51/0/20 and it is working very well. In 10/Ulduar, I am seeing an average of 4k+, and in 25/Ulduar even more. I got Ironsoul last night and had to replace FotFF with Grim Toll to make up for the lost +hit from Death's Bite, but I saw in increase in damage tonight from the increased ArP. The average hit was hitting for about 1k more in damage, and I don't think it being a .10 speed slower weapon would have that much of an increase. So far, ArP looks like it may be win post-3.1.

  20. #260
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    For Blood? For sure. Due to the fact that Blood is such a Physical based tree, ArP worked well pre patch and now works even better with the chances post patch. It's almost worth to note that you might wanna consider Str/ArP gems instead of pure Str gems.

    Just an interesting note to test out.

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