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Thread: Death Knight Raid DPS Compendium (FR/BL/UH)

  1. #221
    I agree with you about the annoying factor..but it seems pointless trying to argue with them sometimes heheh. I appreciate your insight though

  2. #222
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    Thoughts on Blood DPS:

    They did great with it! It's a nice change and I was really doing well with Blood last night in Ulduar. Furthermore: I was right. Rune Power Mastery's pretty useless to be honest because you never pull off that much RP. Heck, if anything, Blood has this nagging problem of not generating ENOUGH rp. This is seen through the first rotation:

    IT (10), PS (10), DS (15), HS (10), HS (10) = 55 RP. Pushing horn, that's 65 RP. If IT is glyphed = 75 RP (Which it shouldn't as you're probably going to go Disease/Death Strike/Death Coil damage one.)

    A couple of noteworthy thoughts:

    - I'm not sure why but the rotation feels clunky. Also, I'm not sure if it's just me but the rotation also only allows 4xHS instead of 6. It makes sense as you're only using one DS at a time...but with the Glyph of DS, I'm wondering if it's not better to put DS after the two Heart Strikes for the maximum amount of RP possible to boost the damage of Death Strike. The suggested rotation would go: IT, PS, HS, HS, DS, DC dump, then HSx4, DS, DC dump.

    I suppose with the fact that DS will use an FU combination that they're going to turn it into Death Runes which in turn come the next rotation you'll have a weird mix of runes available. At this point this is where it gets a bit confusing and I'm not sure the Glyph of Diseases is best to use. Here's the reasoning:

    - You're not getting enough RP. Trying to get to 100 would be somewhat essential to properly use DRW. To alleviate this you could simply sacrifice a death coil in one of your rotations and wait till it gets to 100. The second option is just to IT/PS anyway because PS hits pretty nicely (3.5k crits with it is always funny to see). I'm curious as to wondering if a psudo Frost Rotation could be followed. The problem with that is that without an ability that increases the amount of Runic Power your skill has, you still run out of RP.

    In essence: Blood seems to lack RP with it's rotations. It doesn't benefit from Dirge or from Chill of the Grave therefore you're never going to see a surplus. Furthermore, this doesn't help our 51 point talent because we basically have to sacrifice a death coil to get the RP to be able to use the ability to it's maximum potential. This is a somewhat lowering of potential damage that we can do, which is bizzare in it's own way that they would do that. Also, I'm not convinced that Diseases should be used as a Glyph for Blood due to the lack of RP generation this rotation has. By getting rid of the diseases, you're losing out a potential 20 extra RP (IT Glyphed) in a build that needs RP to properly do damage output (Combination of DS glyph + DRW mechanics)

    All and all, Blood serves it's purpose well enough with the changes to keep on trucking in damage potential. And being a physical demanding spec, the better the gear, the more damage this build will do.

    Oh, btw? 10k Death Strikes are totally awesome!

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  3. #223
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    Krenian can you post the build you dps with? thanks in advance!

  4. #224
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    Click under my name on WoW Characters, you should see my character, first one, with the build I'm using. Unless WoW Armory hasn't updated with 3.1..which would be odd but not unheard off. Let me know. (I'll be working on the Blood portion as I get more testing done. Expect a first write up within a week from now)

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  5. #225
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    cool its working now, it was trying to send me to some DK on llane that didnt exist at first. thanks again!

  6. #226
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    That would be because that's where my DK was until recently where he moved over to Garrosh

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  7. #227
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    Grrr this is a bit annoying. I'm trying to work on spec on site but just noticed it wasn't updated at all. wow needs to hurry and update they're trees

  8. #228
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    Use MMO-Champion's calculator.

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  9. #229
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    Day 2:

    Blood is impressing me more and more as of late. With the gear I'm rocking, it's easily keeping up with the rest of the DPS. Tonight we attempted Razorscale (Which we beat!) and as well as did some good attempts on Deconstructor. In it, I always managed top 5, also getting damn near 7k DPS at some times. (This is slightly skewed as the Heart takes a lot more damage than normal!) But the build really is solid and keeps up with everyone. Definitely am happy with the build.

    The rotation's getting better now. It's just forcing yourself not to look at your runes and memorizing your rotation moreso. Because of the fact you're only Death Striking once in your rotation, you will end up having some Death Runes sitting and potentially confusing you into doing 6 times Heart Strike after the second DS. Don't. You're using your FU you need to use for re-establishment of your diseases.

    Furthermore, I'm thinking that 51/0/20 is definitely the stronger build. The simple fact is that I am barely ever tapping the 100 RP mark with Blood at all. I find myself lacking in RP. This tends to make me have to hold one of my Death coils back.

    The interesting part about all this is that Heart Strike is now officially the strogest hitting attack in your arsenal. Yes, I was critting about 12k crits (24k on the Heart) with Death Strike, but with two strong Heart Strike hits, I was averaging somewhere around 16k total. That's excluding if I was cleaving something, which usually went up to around..13k a shot if both crit (26K depending on rotation, heck, during the 4xHS, I could easily get upwards to 70K damage)

    Blood is incredibly powerful right now and I'm quite content with it's position. I'll be posting random thoughts like this to keep you guys updated with the progress. Next Week I'm thinking it's going to be Frost..but it really depends on if I can even get money. We've been burning through money with consumables as well as repairs so yeah, money's scarce!

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  10. #230
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    Hi all,

    With 3.1 I've gone from the "standarized" 51/13/7 build to this new "almost standarized" 50/0/20 build, and I have a couple of questions.

    I don't know how to put armory links so, if you wanna inspect me:
    Raddik - Dun Modr - EU (4.000AP, 32%crit, 3.200dps avg at dummy boss -don't know if thats right or low -).

    And here are the questions:

    1st.: Does Blood-Caked Blade worth his talent points!? I mean, in the boss dummy BCB is reporting a mere 1-2% of my total damage O_o (that means a 13.500 hit in a 5 minutes 900.000 damage test... is like if I can hit a one more button in a 5 minutes lapse... sounds like an incredible shity talent.
    Or maybe Recount is not meassuring it correctly?. For this absurd increase of damage I will take out Epidemic for the stressless disease refreshment or maybe CE for the fun or even NoTD for a +15% ghoul uptime (60secs every 150seconds versus 60secs every 240seconds).

    2nd.: Blood tree. Aren't the points in Improved Rune Tap better spend on Blood Worms?? I mean, they are both self healing (yes, one absolutely controled and the other no), but... Blood Worms adds 77dps when they are up (that saids Recount...again).

    3rd.: DRW vs UB: Yes, this is a discussion running now on many forums.
    DRW damage is like 750dps in Recount (I don't understand this... If i'm stable at 3.000dps...DRW must be doing 1.500dps when active right!?).

    It will be active 5secs +10secs (full RP bar) every 90 seconds.
    Is that 750dps*15seconds/90seconds = 125dps (if activated every time it's possible and with full RP bar)????
    Unholy Blight dot ticks for around 150dps, right???

    I don't remember it now but...does DRW depletes your RP bar??..If yes, then it will hurt your next Death Strikes making it even worse.

    Many thanks for your inputs ;D
    Last edited by Raddik; 04-16-2009 at 07:04 AM.

  11. #231
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    I too have been trying the various "new" builds. I dual specced both a Blood build and an Unholy build.

    I went with 50/0/21 http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305021530003303201223101350000000000 0000000000000000000230020335002010000000000000000& glyph=000000000000&version=9767
    So I could get UB which I figured would provide more utility than DRW, especially with the DRW Nerf.

    So far I have been very satisfied with it. We did 25/Ulduar last night and, all in all, I felt good with the build. I really don't like what they did to DRW, I didn't feel a nerf was necessary in the first place. But according to my WWS from last night, UB was fairly high on my meter being 4% of my damage overall (172k worth and we only did the first 4 bosses). I would recommend checking into the "UB Blood" Build.

    So far, doing the first four bosses in Ulduar, I am starting to feel that AoE DPS specs may provide more utility....I love Blood Spec, but I kinda felt a little useless, especially during the Deconstructor and all his little adds.

    The next blood build I am going to try out is 44/3/24 http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767
    Why? I am not sure how ArP is going to work out and as I understand it the jury is still out on ArP. I kind of want to see how my DPS was without Blood Gorged and it's 10% ArP. I also wanted to strengthen my diseases as those seemed an important aspect to DK v3.1. But I do agree, Heart Strike still hits hard as it did before and I am pleasantly surprised with Death Strike. Obliterate seems very meh compared to it tho.

    However, I also enjoy playing Unholy, especially since Ulduar feels like it has "real" trash mobs that needs some AoE love. I am intrigued by that 0/10/61 build you posted, that looks interesting and I may give it a try.

    Keep up the great work, I recommend your forum to evey DK I know and incorporated it into my own guide that I posted on my guild website.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raddik View Post
    1st.: Does Blood-Caked Blade worth his talent points!? I mean, in the boss dummy BCB is reporting a mere 1-2% of my total damage O_o (that means a 13.500 hit in a 5 minutes 900.000 damage test... is like if I can hit a one more button in a 5 minutes lapse... sounds like an incredible shity talent.
    Or maybe Recount is not meassuring it correctly?. For this absurd increase of damage I will take out Epidemic for the stressless disease refreshment or maybe CE for the fun or even NoTD for a +15% ghoul uptime (60secs every 150seconds versus 60secs every 240seconds).
    BCB won't register properly, just like Necrosis, on a dummy. Something about the dummy works. I can assure you that it doesn't do as little damage as you will. The one thing you need to remember about any talent spec is that it will be much more potent in a raid to test out than against a dummy. Dummies are great but they have certain flaws. That's one of them: BCB doesn't register right and only hits for 1-2 damage if I remember correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raddik View Post
    2nd.: Blood tree. Aren't the points in Improved Rune Tap better spend on Blood Worms?? I mean, they are both self healing (yes, one absolutely controled and the other no), but... Blood Worms adds 77dps when they are up (that saids Recount...again).
    It's a matter of choice to be honest however I rather do 77 dps over 0 dps which is what Rune Tap does. Yes it's a nice extra heal but yanno, you get the same from Bloodworms as well. DPS is DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raddik View Post
    3rd.: DRW vs UB: Yes, this is a discussion running now on many forums.
    DRW damage is like 750dps in Recount (I don't understand this... If i'm stable at 3.000dps...DRW must be doing 1.500dps when active right!?).

    It will be active 5secs +10secs (full RP bar) every 90 seconds.
    Is that 750dps*15seconds/90seconds = 125dps (if activated every time it's possible and with full RP bar)????
    Unholy Blight dot ticks for around 150dps, right???

    I don't remember it now but...does DRW depletes your RP bar??..If yes, then it will hurt your next Death Strikes making it even worse.
    It's a question of single target dps versus AoE dps. Yes, on Trash, UB will do a consistant stronger output than DRW and is more readily available. But for those times you have to burst: (And I have to say, out of the bosses I've done, there are 'bursts' that you just need a lot of dps for.) DRW does what it needs to do effectively. This is not to discredit Unholy Blight at all. Both specs will work. I just prefer working my single target to it's maximum potential, which is what the Blood tree is mostly focused on. Furthermore, using Unholy Blight is removing RP for your Death Coils which will not help when you start getting into Tier 8 content where Death Coi's damage is increased not only by the Sigil you will get in there but by the Tier 8 set bonus as well. Therefore Unholy Blight is using up the little RP that you have for much more potentially hard hitting Death Coils. It remains to be seen if the damage UB does outscales the damage bonuses we'll get from the bonuses/sigil.

    Also, you're relying on recount too much right now. A) It's still in testing. B) You're not reading it properly at this time. You're expecting half dps when it's only up for a certain amount of time. Therefore you won't see it do half your dps. Maybe a quarter which can work with the amount of DPS you may pull. Remember: It's not up all the time, therefore it won't be half of your damage. It doesn't work that way. Also, it can get parried or dodged oddly enough, as it becomes a matter of where it appears. All and all, I don't mind the DRW changes as it adds some sustained damage that the tree really needed.

    On the subject of it's RP dump: Yes it takes out the RP that you have, but that's when you have to be smart: Don't use it at the start of a rotation, use it at your dump. This allows you to restart a rotation once it's out and not have Death Strike lose too much damage output. I usually do it after my second rotation as it's probably the best time to use it. If I find that i have enough Rp in my first rotation to pull it off (I sometimes get the 100 at the start), I will restart my first rotation when it comes out instead of immediately going in my second rotation of DS, HSx4 so I can maximize the damage of DS instead of having it hit with no RP to fuel it's damage. It's all about prioritizing and this is where Sunni, one of the earlier DK theoriests on the forums, comes into play when he/she explains about Priority. Prioritize your rotations: If you know you're about to use a skill that's going to wipe out your RP, don't do an attack that's RP dependant. Build RP again. Out of both rotations, you're better off restarting your RP and losing the 4xHS for 10 seconds so you can hit harder anyway. Sides, Plague Strike hitting for 4k is funny to see right now so it's not too worrisome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raddik View Post
    Many thanks for your inputs ;D
    You're welcome!

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  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathmaul View Post
    I too have been trying the various "new" builds. I dual specced both a Blood build and an Unholy build.

    I went with 50/0/21 http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=2305021530003303201223101350000000000 0000000000000000000230020335002010000000000000000& glyph=000000000000&version=9767
    So I could get UB which I figured would provide more utility than DRW, especially with the DRW Nerf.

    So far I have been very satisfied with it. We did 25/Ulduar last night and, all in all, I felt good with the build. I really don't like what they did to DRW, I didn't feel a nerf was necessary in the first place. But according to my WWS from last night, UB was fairly high on my meter being 4% of my damage overall (172k worth and we only did the first 4 bosses). I would recommend checking into the "UB Blood" Build.

    So far, doing the first four bosses in Ulduar, I am starting to feel that AoE DPS specs may provide more utility....I love Blood Spec, but I kinda felt a little useless, especially during the Deconstructor and all his little adds.

    The next blood build I am going to try out is 44/3/24 http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767
    Why? I am not sure how ArP is going to work out and as I understand it the jury is still out on ArP. I kind of want to see how my DPS was without Blood Gorged and it's 10% ArP. I also wanted to strengthen my diseases as those seemed an important aspect to DK v3.1. But I do agree, Heart Strike still hits hard as it did before and I am pleasantly surprised with Death Strike. Obliterate seems very meh compared to it tho.

    However, I also enjoy playing Unholy, especially since Ulduar feels like it has "real" trash mobs that needs some AoE love. I am intrigued by that 0/10/61 build you posted, that looks interesting and I may give it a try.

    Keep up the great work, I recommend your forum to evey DK I know and incorporated it into my own guide that I posted on my guild website.
    I found that using D&D + Blood Boil and just single targetting what I need with my Frost and Unholy rune attacks just works as well, you run around more but it still works fine. There's always little tricks to run around certain AoE problems. Yes, I'll fully agree that AoE with a blood spec is lacking, however that's something we already knew: Blood's a single target tree. I also wouldn't worry about lagging behind in DPS with Blood due to AoE stuff. Bosses matter, not trash. And yes, there's trash during bosses however most of the time you're dpsing one target really.

    In any case, glad you recommend the guide, it's here to help!

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  14. #234
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    Thanks Krenian, I much prefer your guide to EJ, yours is just better organized and I for one, really appreciate how well you keep that front page updated and organized.

    Unfortunately, our WWS from last night didn't break down by boss, it only gave us the total timed out put, but prior to 3.1 I was pulling 5k+ in 25/Naxx with 51/13/7.

    With having the dual spec, I may try the 0/10/61 for trash and do 50/0/21 for bosses. I used the crap out of DRW prior to 3.1, I spammed hysteria followed immediately by DRW followed by AotD (w/ haste pot), but I don't like how they nerfed the damage 50% and then slowed the weapon speed to 3.5 from 2.0.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathmaul View Post
    Thanks Krenian, I much prefer your guide to EJ, yours is just better organized and I for one, really appreciate how well you keep that front page updated and organized.

    Unfortunately, our WWS from last night didn't break down by boss, it only gave us the total timed out put, but prior to 3.1 I was pulling 5k+ in 25/Naxx with 51/13/7.

    With having the dual spec, I may try the 0/10/61 for trash and do 50/0/21 for bosses. I used the crap out of DRW prior to 3.1, I spammed hysteria followed immediately by DRW followed by AotD (w/ haste pot), but I don't like how they nerfed the damage 50% and then slowed the weapon speed to 3.5 from 2.0.
    Well I try to keep things organized to be honest. However don't expect quick updates for this. With progression on the line, I'm going to probably stick to one spec until we have things down in the raid scene. I'm thinking of a weekly switch between specs but that will have to be talked with Cider and see if he's willing to let me test out my specs during raid times. If there's any drop in dps however, I will be switching right back to Blood for the remainder of the week to ensure that we're getting the best possible DPS. Right now, I am really liking Blood and wanna stay with it. (Besides, the Glyphs cost a bloody fortune and that annoys me.)

    With Frost Two hander (That was my choice of raiding due to the fact I still am touting about an Inevitable Defeat and not a Betrayer of Humanity), I clocked about 6k DPS on Patchwerk before 3.1. I'm doing pretty good, anywhere around 4.5k on moving fights so that means right now it's doing alright. On fights like Deconstructor where there's not a whole lot of moving for Melee unless you're the bomb, if I get a good streak going, I can hit around 5.5k easily. (More like 7k when the heart decides to pop out). All and all I'm impressed with Blood.

    Also, it'd be interesting to note if due to the change of the weapon speed, if it's white damage hit is stronger now. Usually the slower a weapon is, the higher top end it has. Maybe it has a higher burst potential? that's something I'm going to have to look at while breaking stuff down.

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  16. #236
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    Hey guys my guild has been raiding ulduar and we have leviathon, razorscale (pre-nerf), XT-002 down in 25man and those plus kologarn, auriaya, freya and thorim down in 10man. I have tried alot of specs on most of these bosses and I'm sorry to say in my opinion the blood spec that krenian is rocking just isnt as good as unholy or frost. There are usually 2 death knights in our raid. When we were both specced blood, we were doing maybe around 4-5k avg., we switched to unholy after our dk tank switched to his unholy offspec for 1 fight and did more dmg than us (even with much worse gear). Unholy boosted our dps by about 1k, but then the other death knight won the new sigil from Ulduar (Sigil of the Vengeful Heart - Item - World of Warcraft) and specced frost 2h, and that boosted his dps even further! From our experinces through ulduar the best spec is Frost 2h (with sigil) followed by Unholy 2h then Blood 2H. We havent tried any DW specs but to be honest im not sure its even worth trying.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostro View Post
    Hey guys my guild has been raiding ulduar and we have leviathon, razorscale (pre-nerf), XT-002 down in 25man and those plus kologarn, auriaya, freya and thorim down in 10man. I have tried alot of specs on most of these bosses and I'm sorry to say in my opinion the blood spec that krenian is rocking just isnt as good as unholy or frost. There are usually 2 death knights in our raid. When we were both specced blood, we were doing maybe around 4-5k avg., we switched to unholy after our dk tank switched to his unholy offspec for 1 fight and did more dmg than us (even with much worse gear). Unholy boosted our dps by about 1k, but then the other death knight won the new sigil from Ulduar (Sigil of the Vengeful Heart - Item - World of Warcraft) and specced frost 2h, and that boosted his dps even further! From our experinces through ulduar the best spec is Frost 2h (with sigil) followed by Unholy 2h then Blood 2H. We havent tried any DW specs but to be honest im not sure its even worth trying.
    Not sure what you guys were doing but I average around 5.5, nearly 6k on most boss fights depending on what's going on and if I get lucky with a few things. =/ The spec works, you just need the gear and the weapon for it. Blood's very reliant on your weapon and your damage output.

    On another note however, I haven't tested out Unholy and Frost yet and I will next week on a new clear. So far however Blood really feels nice to play with. We'll just have to see when I do my write up. Chances are you're right and that Blood STILL doesn't keep up with Frost or Unholy whatsoever. I won't be ensured until I actually go through my write ups and check it out. Unholy has always been a rather annoying spec for me as I don't do well babysitting my DoTs at all. It's just an extra item to look at while you pay attention to other details in a raid. Eh well.

    FINALLY: Please read the front of the guide. To the individuals that come on and speak to me, it's fine, i don't mind discussing DK things, but not while raiding. So really, read the first paragraph and please respect that. Thank you!
    Last edited by Krenian; 04-16-2009 at 10:07 PM.

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  18. #238
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    Ran the 51/0/20 last night in Ulduar (I was in standby for 2 hours so I worked the dummy a bit and went with the 51pt Blood spec) and I pulled 4.7k on XT (could have had higher but I play with 500-600ms latency). I am back to respecting DRW, the nerf doesn't feel as bad as it reads in the tooltip. It was hitting for an average of 2k+ total (2.8k average white DPS and 1.8k average Heart Strike DPS amongst other things) and had crits upwards of 9k. And I was able to use it everytime the heart popped out.

    I love the new DS, I had 25k crits on the heart and 19k heal crits. I feel a nerf coming for DS tho.....the PvPers are going to be QQing like mad.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathmaul View Post
    Ran the 51/0/20 last night in Ulduar (I was in standby for 2 hours so I worked the dummy a bit and went with the 51pt Blood spec) and I pulled 4.7k on XT (could have had higher but I play with 500-600ms latency). I am back to respecting DRW, the nerf doesn't feel as bad as it reads in the tooltip. It was hitting for an average of 2k+ total (2.8k average white DPS and 1.8k average Heart Strike DPS amongst other things) and had crits upwards of 9k. And I was able to use it everytime the heart popped out.

    I love the new DS, I had 25k crits on the heart and 19k heal crits. I feel a nerf coming for DS tho.....the PvPers are going to be QQing like mad.
    They already are and it's apparently a potential bug that they're looking into. Expect a Hotfix of some sort to go in.

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  20. #240
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    Whats you rotation for blood ?

    Also.. I am looking at your armory, and comparing it to mine.... we have rather similar gear, some of mine is a bit better, and some of yours is a bit better... (Notice i dropped my hit rating way down =P )

    Anyway, I noticed you are sitting at abt 4kAP.... and I am sitting at abt 3.2k.... Now I did notice I dropped from 3.7k to 3.2 unbuffed with unholy spec.... and that came with the patch, and nothing more... but 800 AP... is that all from the blood tree?

    Here is a link to my armory again - The World of Warcraft Armory

    What do you think ?

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