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Thread: Shockwave & Heroic Throw?

  1. #1
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    Shockwave & Heroic Throw?

    do you use them in your single target tanking rotation?

    I use heroic throw, but not shockwave, but i noticed that xav uses shockwave.

    here's a patchwork kill to get an idea of what i'm doing.

    Wow Web Stats

    i need more expertise or hit, i'm missing too much i think.

  2. #2
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    In a raid situation where I'm buffed to the point of over 4k AP, it would be a travesty not to include shockwave. Rage isn't an issue and I believe it does the same as conc blow on a single target.
    Drowning in Worldie's QQ.

  3. #3
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    i use it...stuns never hurt anyone, extra threat, and good dmg (esp if you have soem good AP). def a staple in all rotations imo...

  4. #4
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    well, not gonna be stunning a boss with it. i always use it on CD for trash. I'm pushing about 5k AP raid buffed, so i'll add it to the rotation.

  5. #5
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    yeah youre not gonna stun a boss, but youre not also attacking nothing but bosses 100% of the time either. i dont understand why everything has to be only about bosses. yeah its important to think about bosses, but theyre not the only content in the game. youll run into way more trash that you can stun than bosses that you cant.
    Last edited by jettzypher; 12-29-2008 at 03:45 AM.

  6. #6
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    I definitely use it in my rotation, when Shield Slam and revenge are on cooldown and no debuffs have to be refreshed. Hell I sometimes hit Taunting Blow.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettzypher View Post
    yeah youre not gonna stun a boss, but youre not also attacking nothing but bosses 100% of the time either. i dont understand why everything has to be only about bosses. yeah its important to think about bosses, but theyre not the only content in the game. youll run into way more trash that you can stun than bosses that you cant.
    Because the question was about single target rotations, this is generally assumed to be a boss because single trash pulls don't live very long, and they are few and far between. People simply answered the question asked.

    Shockwave, like concussion Blow and Heroic Throw, are better than Devastate whenever SS has <2 Seconds left on CD. Devastate is only better in other situations because of possible SnB procs. I get 1 off on each SS cooldown, thrown in with SnB procs, I generally always have one up to use.

  8. #8
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    yeah, people assumed...

  9. #9
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    i guess i should have said "boss" not "single target rotation" but that is what i meant.

  10. #10
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    I've had a look at my Recount data from yesterdays Naxxramas normal raid
    to get some actual numbers on this issue.

    The data includes all bosses and trash mobs. I've listed the average
    damage on hit and crit. Additionally the overall average damage done by
    each ability.

    Code:
    Ability            Av. Hit      Av. Crit      av. overall Dmg.
    Shield Slam         2046         4536             2633
    Revenge             2002         4436             2185
    Shockwave           2110         4637             2448
    Devastate            671         1535              818
    Thunderclap          696         1108              752
    Concussion Blow     2314         5214             2397
    Heroic Throw        1210         2822             1343
    The actual numbers may vary depending on your gear and buffs. But should
    be applicable for most raiders with an Impale/Deep Wounds build.

    From this data you get the following priority list:

    1. Shield Slam
    2. Shockwave
    3. Concussion Blow
    4. Revenge
    5. Heroic Throw
    6. Devastate
    7. Thunder Clap
    Coming back to the original topic of this thread: Yes, use Shockwave on
    every cooldown even during single target tanking. And if you have a
    cooldown to spare, you can use Heroic Throw prior to Devastate and
    Thunderclap.

    One thing I noticed and was new to me: Thunderclap is treated like a
    spell regarding its crit rate and crit damage.
    It only had the ~15% crit
    rate from the talent Incite and the 50% bonus damage on crits instead of
    the 100% we usually get as melee. Additionally the bonus damage isn't
    modified by Impale.

    If Thunderclap would be treated the same way as Shockwave, it would be
    on the priority list even before Devastate!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jettzypher View Post
    yeah, people assumed...
    Yes, and assumed correctly. You'll find that after answering enough questions about "single Target Threat Rotations" your assumption that they mean boss's is generally correct.

    People also won't normally ask for a "rotation" for trash tanking.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gromtar View Post
    One thing I noticed and was new to me: Thunderclap is treated like a
    spell regarding its crit rate and crit damage.
    It only had the ~15% crit
    rate from the talent Incite and the 50% bonus damage on crits instead of
    the 100% we usually get as melee. Additionally the bonus damage isn't
    modified by Impale.

    If Thunderclap would be treated the same way as Shockwave, it would be
    on the priority list even before Devastate!
    Thunderclap and Taunt have always been treated as a spell, the only exception to this was when both were changed to work with melee, as well as spell hit. Though that exception has since become irrelevant.

    This was why you saw warriors stacking spell hit for four horseman back in the 40 man.

  13. #13
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    This thread on EJ addresses this exact question, it may have the answers and insight you are looking for.

    Tanking "Cycle" and Priorities - Elitist Jerks
    Xav
    Formerly Xavastrasz
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak View Post
    control+c control+v amirite?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnuss View Post
    Hell no, its Xav, he is gonna type that bitch till his fingers fall off.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceravantes View Post
    Thunderclap and Taunt have always been treated as a spell, the only exception to this was when both were changed to work with melee, as well as spell hit. Though that exception has since become irrelevant.

    This was why you saw warriors stacking spell hit for four horseman back in the 40 man.
    It's also why thunderclap was so nice for killing rogues (not that warriors needed help). I haven't pvp-ed much in LK but I would hazard that thunderclap > evasion still.

    It's still physical damage though, so no getting around armor except for bleeds for us warriors.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for math Grom and the link Xav, very informative thread

  16. #16
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    The only reason you shouldn't be using shockwave is if the hitbox of a creature is too large for your shockwave to land while you are tanking it.

    Heroic Throw is still better than devastate.

    Rend is even proving to be potentially better than devastate too but it needs more testing. They also kinda need to fix the bug with improved rend too.

    For such a "staple" ability devastate is kinda lacking. It'd be nice if they made S&B trigger from some of these other powers like rend, conc blow, and shockwave. I was talking about it in other threads but basically since devastate scales at 50% of your weapon dmg it is actually the worst scaling of all our skills. Things like HT, Conc Blow, Shockwave, and Rend will dwarf it even worse in the future.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightmgl View Post
    The only reason you shouldn't be using shockwave is if the hitbox of a creature is too large for your shockwave to land while you are tanking it.
    It is always possible to position yourself so that your Shockwave lands. Just move close to the mob until your stand on the red ring from the hitbox. This has worked for me on Malygos, Sapphiron and Sartharion.

  18. #18
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    I always just ditched it cause I was worried the mobs might shift or move. I really don't like moving forward in a fight like Malygos where I could blow people up :/. We shouldn't have to anyways. Same reason we shouldn't ever be out of thunderclap range if we can melee a mob either.

  19. #19
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    Although it's not a big deal with a 1.5/1.6 speed tanking weapon don't forget the heroic throw resets your swing timer much like slam used to. But yes, I use everything. Once I've got full sunders up my personal priority is shield slam > revenge > shockwave > concussion blow > heroic throw > devestate (keeping thunderclap/demo shout up unless we're overgeared for the content). Of course devestate quickly becomes top priority if sunder's are expiring.

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