Hit Caps - Expertise Caps, From Front & Back?

[Bluespirit]

I just have a few questions about hit rating, expertise, and is experitise still needed when attacking from behind.

So, hit rating, I think its pretty much common knowledge that it is 9% to cap out, but my question is, when using a 2 handed weapon is it always 9%?
Also, I appreciate the difference in some classes like humans and orcs; where they benefit from axe or sword specialization, but is a 9% tauren warrior the same as a tauren druids hit rating?
Baically, as long as Im not duel wielding; is hit rating basically the same for all classes - barring specialization racials?
Do you gain anything for being over capped? Like 10% or 12%?
Last question about hit rating - What is the exact hit cap? I've heard some people say its like 9.21% or something? Is it just over 9% or exactly 9%?

So, expertise, what is the cap for expertise? I've hear its around 14 or 15%, is this true? Its it exactly a certain % or 15.2...?
Like the hit rating question, can you over cap expertise and gain any benifit?
I hear about soft capping and hard capping? What exactly is this? I hear its being capped for dodges at some like 3% or 6%, then hard capped is for parries?

What expertise rating % do you need for attacks from behind? I believe that attacks can only be dodged, is it about 3% expertise?



Any feedback is most welcome, and thanks.

[intolerantape]

Quoted from this thread at Elitist Jerks:

Hit Caps
Single 2H or 1H WHITE...........164 (5% hit) - ?
w/Draenei.....................132 (4% hit) - ?
w/Precision...................99 (3% hit) - ?
w/Draen + Prec................66 (2% hit) - ?
->Single 2H or 1H YELLOW..........296 (9% hit)
w/Draenei.....................263 (8% hit)
w/Precision...................197 (6% hit)
w/Draen + Prec................164 (5% hit)

Dual Wield WHITE................919 (28% hit)
w/Draenei.....................886 (27% hit)
w/Precision...................820 (25% hit)
w/Draenei + Prec..............788 (24% hit)
Titan's Grip YELLOW.............460 (14% hit)
w/Draenei.....................427 (13% hit)
-> w/Precision...................361 (11% hit)
w/Draen + Prec................328 (10% hit)

Expertise (dodge) cap.............214 (26 Exp)
+3 Racial.....................189 (23 Exp)
-> Strength of Arms 2/2..........181 (22 Exp)
+5 Racial.....................173 (21 Exp)
-> Vitality 3/3..................164 (20 Exp)
SoA & +3 Racial...............156 (19 Exp)
-> Weapon Mastery 2/2............148 (18 Exp)
SoA & +5 Racial...............140 (17 Exp)
Vit & +3 Racial...............140 (17 Exp)
Vit & +5 Racial...............123 (15 Exp)
WM & +3 Racial................123 (15 Exp)
SoA & WM......................115 (14 Exp)
WM & +5 Racial................107 (13 Exp)
SoA & WM & +3 Racial..........82 (10 Exp)
SoA & WM & +5 Racial..........66 (8 Exp)

The data can be a little hard to understand so I bolded the important values for a raid boss.

Mobs can dodge from behind, but cannot parry from behind. As such, if you are DPSing you should be attacking from behind to prevent parry-haste and so you only need worry about removing the mob's chance to dodge.

A raid bosses dodge chance is believed to be 6.5%. A raid boss' parry chance is variable and ranges from about 10-15%.

[Togrin]

I think the Hitcap has been lowered to 8%, but I can't find the thread in EJ where it's discussed. But according to tests on the boss dummies the new hitcap (8%) against bosses has been confirmed. Sorry that I don't quote the source, but the information is still valid.

[blackhand]

From what I read from the EJ thread that was just for white hits, specials are still under question.

[Lightmgl]

What all this effectively means is that expertise is twice as effective as hit until 26 in addition to having a slight mitigation boost from decreasing parries.

That 8% hit is pretty confirmed at this point. It is most likely related to the change they made to remove the last 1% hit from Casters since they altered spells to be on the same hit table as melee hits just with a lower chance. Idiots probably switched the tables first THEN bumped everyone up 1% to remove the final miss point so casters wouldn't need additional hit.

[Bluespirit]

Quoted from this thread at Elitist Jerks:



The data can be a little hard to understand so I bolded the important values for a raid boss.

Mobs can dodge from behind, but cannot parry from behind. As such, if you are DPSing you should be attacking from behind to prevent parry-haste and so you only need worry about removing the mob's chance to dodge.

A raid bosses dodge chance is believed to be 6.5%. A raid boss' parry chance is variable and ranges from about 10-15%.

Thanks for linking that, really appreciate it.

I think the Hitcap has been lowered to 8%, but I can't find the thread in EJ where it's discussed. But according to tests on the boss dummies the new hitcap (8%) against bosses has been confirmed. Sorry that I don't quote the source, but the information is still valid.

Where did you hear this?

[Togrin]

Is melee hit cap really 9%? - Elitist Jerks

While some argue that there is an issue with the boss dummies, WWS data confirm the new hitcap.

[Bluespirit]

Is melee hit cap really 9%? - Elitist Jerks

While some argue that there is an issue with the boss dummies, WWS data confirm the new hitcap.

I know what WWS reports are, but how does it confirm a new hit cap? I'd love ghostcrawler to actually clear this up, are dummies giving different results? Or has the hit cap changed values?

[Bodasafa]

Based on my own personal results I believe the hit cap to be closer to 8%. At this time Im calling EJ's results speculation.

Realistically this early on in the expansion, I'm taking upgrades as I see them, to overall improve with armor, stam, and dodge in mind first and foremost. Epics with other useful stats like expertise and hit are getting tossed in the bank until a later date when more is known about actual confirmed caps.

With 188 hit rating im having roughly 3 misses in Naxx 10 man per night in a 3 hour stretch without a dranei , and that's way less than I was getting in BC 25 mans, so Im happy for now.

As for expertise, reaching the parry cap and still maintaining a solid MT set was hard in BC unless you were in Sunwell. It appears with the projected numbers that the parry cap is going to be way out there again. I believe the parry cap is really what makes expertise shine. It negates those horrible parry gibs that wipe a raid.

The dodge portion I consider threat. Yes the dodge cap was lower and more attainable in BC. With the projected numbers for Wrath it looks like the dodge cap will be attainable again with minimal sacrifice. But if dont reach it just yet, Im not all that concerned. Because threat right now is not an issue whatsoever.

[Bluespirit]

Based on my own personal results I believe the hit cap to be closer to 8%. At this time Im calling EJ's results speculation.

Realistically this early on in the expansion, I'm taking upgrades as I see them, to overall improve with armor, stam, and dodge in mind first and foremost. Epics with other useful stats like expertise and hit are getting tossed in the bank until a later date when more is known about actual confirmed caps.

With 188 hit rating im having roughly 3 misses in Naxx 10 man per night in a 3 hour stretch without a dranei , and that's way less than I was getting in BC 25 mans, so Im happy for now.

As for expertise, reaching the parry cap and still maintaining a solid MT set was hard in BC unless you were in Sunwell. It appears with the projected numbers that the parry cap is going to be way out there again. I believe the parry cap is really what makes expertise shine. It negates those horrible parry gibs that wipe a raid.

The dodge portion I consider threat. Yes the dodge cap was lower and more attainable in BC. With the projected numbers for Wrath it looks like the dodge cap will be attainable again with minimal sacrifice. But if dont reach it just yet, Im not all that concerned. Because threat right now is not an issue whatsoever.

Yeah, there's so much expertise on gear now it almost makes me sick, lol. I personally am trying to get a good balance of hit and expertise, obviously expertise will always be proiritized for me because of the damage reduction and improved threat.
In BC my goal as a feral druid was to stack armor, armor was basically my most important because I'd take very little damage from physical damage. In wrath my thought process has changed completey, and I honestly don't care about armor anymore. My focus is threat, and the reason its threat is because there's more than enough stamina out there IMO if your gear correctly for the content you do. Also, more threat is always good with this dps craze right, everyone wants to be top dps, everyone is popping everything, and my survival isn't the issue anymore its other players, lol.

I know I'm leaning into off-topic here, but I personally think that stacking stam, like I see all top guilded tanks do. I appreciate that I have only tanked 25 man sarth, but I have 38k health or so fully buffed, and I haven't stacked any stam, and survival isn't an issue. Is there any content that warrents all out stamina stacking? I don't think so, but then again Im not running the ultra high content, Im 10 man only for the most part with minimal 25 experience.