+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 52

Thread: DK Changes on PTR

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    17

    DK Changes on PTR

    Jumped on to see what they've done to my DK...

    The big changes were frost presence going getting 20% more armor. For me that meant 2.4k more armor, or 1.97% additional damage reduction. But, at the same time they nerfed Icebound Fortitude (our shield wall) and Bone Shield (Unholy's 2nd shield wall) to 20% base. IBF scales by defense at least. I ran a few tests with the lava in the Obsidian Dragonshrine since it is a fairly static 600-603 damage and ended up getting -40.87% damage on my IBF (down from 50%). This is at 540 defense (689 defense exactly). I made sure to test this in Blood presence so that the new, improved 15% (up from 5%) spell reduction on frost presence didn't skew things.

    Rune of the Stoneskin gargoyle... 25 defense skill 2% stamina. The avoidance from this is not effected by DRs... switching from swordshattering my avoidance went from 59.34 to 58.34. (before blade barrier etc) As I understand it there was some confusion about if defense-provided avoidance was effected by DR... this pretty well settles it I think. Appearance wise it looks almost exactly the same as Fallen Crusader, except slightly green instead of blue.

    With that rune on my defense is sitting at 565. I went back to the obsidian dragonshrine. This time I was taking 331 damage per tick instead of 355... roughly a 44.83% damage reduction. I wonder if it has a cap or if it can go over its old 50% value. If anyone wants to figure out exactly how much it improves per point of defense, knock yourselves out :P

    Glyph of Anti-magic shell got nerfed from +5 seconds on AMS to +2 seconds, while still increasing the CD by 15 seconds. The base cd on AMS got reduced to 45 seconds... I'm thinking 2 seconds more uptime isn't worth the 15 second cooldown with it at a base 45 seconds. Your mileage may vary.

    Unholy also got Corpse Explosion revamped. Its pretty nice now, I think I'll even take it in my frost tanking build. For me as frost it was hitting for around 900 shadow damage, aoe, with a 40 RP cost. 1100-1200 for me as unholy.

    Raise Ghoul and Raise Ally was split into 2 different spells...with this and the new glyph of raise ghoul making the spell not require corpse dust I might even use my ghoul. Usually I just forget about him entirely. I still think it would be cool for Raise Ally to be an actually battlerez, with the cooldown increased to an appropriate level. Spread that raid utility around!

    So Bone Shield was a pretty nasty nerf for unholy, but having a 40% damage reduction that was up > 50% of the time kinda needed it. Overall I'm pretty happy with the changes... I expected IBF to be much lower after the nerf.

    Some undocumented(?) awesome changes: Tempered Titansteel helm now has a meta socket and a blue socket. Socket bonus of +6 defense.
    Eternal Earths now have a yellow tinge to them, making them a lot easier to differentiate in your bag.
    Runic Healing Injector has a new icon.

  2. #2
    Side question, since you mentioned Tempered Titansteel, any idea if they added a socket to the Spiked Titansteel helm aside from the Meta?

    Right now it has a Meta socket but no regular socket.
    Follow me on Twitter | Facebook | Google+

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    17
    Nope, just the meta gem still.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Errant View Post
    Rune of the Stoneskin gargoyle... 25 defense skill 2% stamina. The avoidance from this is not effected by DRs... switching from swordshattering my avoidance went from 59.34 to 58.34. (before blade barrier etc) As I understand it there was some confusion about if defense-provided avoidance was effected by DR... this pretty well settles it I think. Appearance wise it looks almost exactly the same as Fallen Crusader, except slightly green instead of blue.

    With that rune on my defense is sitting at 565. I went back to the obsidian dragonshrine. This time I was taking 331 damage per tick instead of 355... roughly a 44.83% damage reduction. I wonder if it has a cap or if it can go over its old 50% value. If anyone wants to figure out exactly how much it improves per point of defense, knock yourselves out :P
    Can you elaborate? From what I read of what you posted:
    Stoneskin Gargolye = lower avoidance, but less damage taken

    Is that right? Also, 25 defense skill equates to about 120 Defense rating...
    Last edited by Frothymilk; 12-17-2008 at 02:25 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Acherus, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Frothymilk View Post
    Can you elaborate? From what I read of what you posted:
    Stoneskin Gargolye = lower avoidance, but less damage taken

    Is that right? Also, 25 defense skill equates to about 120 Defense rating...
    I believe what he meant is stone gargoyle rune is 25 def rating not 25 defense skill.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    17
    25 defense skill is what I meant. Yes, that means its giving us about 120 defense rating.

    And for frothy what I meant was that when I went back and tested Icebound fortitude again after applying Stoneskin Gargoyle the damage reduction from Icebound fortitude went up about 4% thanks to that 25 defense skill.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Errant View Post
    25 defense skill is what I meant. Yes, that means its giving us about 120 defense rating.

    And for frothy what I meant was that when I went back and tested Icebound fortitude again after applying Stoneskin Gargoyle the damage reduction from Icebound fortitude went up about 4% thanks to that 25 defense skill.
    Roger. Defense Cap here I come.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    225
    Thats pretty silly getting 25 skill = 124 rating. The most you can get from a weapon + shield + ranged is around 120 assuming you have the highest defense items available in game for those slots including a really expensive engineering gun.

    That means you basically get 25 man epic level defense for free and significantly more in those slots over a paladin.

    I'm glad they gave you guys something cause the lower levels really stunk but thats serious overkill.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    248
    It's not overkill. Think about it.

    The rune is only too 2-handers? correct?

    Take the def from the Red Sword of Courage, the Strat shield, and the armorplated combat shotgun? 38+49+21= 108, the titansteel shield I think has more def...

    124 rating is right on par for those 3 slots, to help balance losing the dodge/parry/block that most shields come with also, badge shield for example.

    These DK changes are really nice in moving the DK frost and building it's tanking niche.

    *golf clap* Touche Blizzard.
    November 23, 2004 8:27:03 AM - Glomgore 10+ Years of tanking? Priceless

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    225
    Yeah so basically you get for free what a warrior needs to slug through heroics, buy an expensive shield enchant, and buy a gun worth thousands of gold for. The titansteel shield is garbage.

    That defense is also the brunt of the itemization on those items. Putting an enchant like that on the Naxx expertise mace is insane stats.

    None of it fixes the fundamental problem. DKs scale like pre 3.0 feral druids, way too weak at the start and way too strong at the end. Its a lame bandage to prevent them from redesigning the class' tanking from the ground up. This will help the early DKs out but its gonna allow the later DKs to grab non defense items such as rings and cloaks which have much higher avoidance or armor stats, and those DKs already have a double digit avoidance advantage. Just imagine being able to replace one of your rings with a Gatekeeper and the other with a Keystone Great Ring and your cloak with a Cloak of the Shadowed Sun while remaining defense capped.
    Last edited by Lightmgl; 12-18-2008 at 02:52 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,405
    Avoidance, meet diminishing returns.
    Before complaining, might want to try around how much it'd actually mean.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    899
    Feels like they're giving DK tanks free crutches.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightmgl View Post
    Thats pretty silly getting 25 skill = 124 rating. The most you can get from a weapon + shield + ranged is around 120 assuming you have the highest defense items available in game for those slots including a really expensive engineering gun.

    That means you basically get 25 man epic level defense for free and significantly more in those slots over a paladin.

    I'm glad they gave you guys something cause the lower levels really stunk but thats serious overkill.
    I can partly agree that this rune is a bit overpowered, but at the same time its fairly needed by beginning DK tanks who are struggling to reach uncrittable. Also this rune + the new defense rating sigil would put dk's at about 177 defense rating between two items, which would personally put me in the 580ish defense range while the sigil proc is up.

    However when you think about it from blizzards perspective this "bandaid" (they should have just made a rune that was defense rating, and maybe another that is +threat later on) is also one of the easiest things they can manipulate going further. They won't have to itemize 2 handers for tanking they can leave it up to the DK, and if those numbers prove to be out of wack they can easily just change the numbers, which I think they'll end up doing before all is said and done.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    184
    The new rune will be used by a lot of DKs right now, as gear continues to get better all around they will switch to the 4% parry rune. Seems good to me. I'll be happy with the new rune, as right now every gem and chant I get needs to be defense to reach the cap.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by gacktt View Post
    Feels like they're giving DK tanks free crutches.
    Sorry guys, but I totally agree with this. We already have a viable blood-spec DK tank in our guild right now, and even he's laughing at these changes.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by xKhellendrosx View Post
    I can partly agree that this rune is a bit overpowered, but at the same time its fairly needed by beginning DK tanks who are struggling to reach uncrittable.
    Um, wouldn't it have been better if Blizz has said "welcome to tanking?". Every class has to learn how to balance its stats, and clearly many DK tanks can and have reached uncritable. My issue here is that DK DPS (and tanking up to now) were designed so that there was a real skill factor involved to take the class to the top. Not impossible, but you have to actually learn a bit about the class and the mechanics to succeed. This was the perfect way to design a FotM class IMO. Now, despite the glut of bad tanks running around on servers, they have shifted their strategy to "well, maybe we can let them tank a bit easier", thus prolonging the problem.

    They won't have to itemize 2 handers for tanking they can leave it up to the DK, and if those numbers prove to be out of wack they can easily just change the numbers, which I think they'll end up doing before all is said and done.
    Hopefully before it goes live then...

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want DKs nerfed, or to not be able to tank. It's just that I know for a fact they can tank right now and I don't want Blizz to make tanking heroics or raids easier for them just because poor players whined that they can't do it as easily as their guilds warrior/tankadin/druid make it look when that tank has been doing it since Naxx was active over the EPL.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    68
    25 Skill is too much for free. They just keep dumbing this game down.
    Either play to win, or shut up and lose.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    184
    Will every DK thread end up with warriors having issues with the tweaks or changes? These things have been brewing for DKs since beta, infact the D rune and new sigils where requested time and again.

    I don't mean to be combative but it gets old seeing the same stuff each thread.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,105
    Quote Originally Posted by Urrick View Post
    Will every DK thread end up with warriors having issues with the tweaks or changes? These things have been brewing for DKs since beta, infact the D rune and new sigils where requested time and again.

    I don't mean to be combative but it gets old seeing the same stuff each thread.
    No offense, but there's a reason you keep seeing these, and as long as Blizz insists on dumbing down a FotM class when it was already viable I doubt you'll see an end to them.

    You mention that almost all of your gems are currently for defense...in TBC almost all of my gems and enchants where for stam - it's just the way certain stages of gearing work.

    The fact that the changes have been requested by some players doesn't mean they are necessary; there are still threads with hunters asking for more DPS. The question is whether they are in fact necessary, and if they aren't, how does it affect the game if they get made anyways.

    Like I said, I play with a very good blood spec DK tank, they aren't broken and don't require absurd levels of effort to gear up.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by TomHuxley View Post
    Um, wouldn't it have been better if Blizz has said "welcome to tanking?". Every class has to learn how to balance its stats, and clearly many DK tanks can and have reached uncritable. My issue here is that DK DPS (and tanking up to now) were designed so that there was a real skill factor involved to take the class to the top. Not impossible, but you have to actually learn a bit about the class and the mechanics to succeed. This was the perfect way to design a FotM class IMO. Now, despite the glut of bad tanks running around on servers, they have shifted their strategy to "well, maybe we can let them tank a bit easier", thus prolonging the problem.
    I'm failing to see how the skill factor has changed. It somehow takes less skill to tank at a higher defense skill than at a lower? If you don't understand the mechanics of the class to begin with you are just going to fall flat on your face. Whether you have 450 defense or 540, having the higher defense just makes you fall a little slower.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts