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Thread: Hit rating and the curious DK

  1. #1
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    Hit rating and the curious DK

    (this is for Tony and anyone else who is curious about what DK moves have what hit rating requirements)

    This is not the final word, it is just my first contribution of data. I spent a good 10 min hammering on the boss level training dummy to get a first look at hit rating and its effect on the different DK abilities.

    I did the test in my tanking gear which gives 197 hit rating (6.01%), 18 expertise (4.5%), I am unholy spec'd (Osyras on Terenas), and I'm using 2-hander with a 3.6 speed. I timed out 10 min of attacking with Bone Shield trying to use all of my main abilities frequently, and I did it while standing behind the target to eliminate parry chances. I was completely unbuffed, but I am Draenei, so I have my racial 1% hit bonus.

    Here's the results of the different parts:
    Melee (170)
    64.1% Hit (109)
    25.9% Glancing (44)
    6.5% Crit (11)
    2.4% Miss (4)
    1.2% Dodge (2)

    Unholy Blight (527)
    93.5% Hit (493)
    6.5% Miss (34)

    Scourge Strike (38)
    89.5% Hit (34)
    10.5% Crit (4)
    Icy Touch (45)
    88.9% Hit (40)
    11.1% Miss (5)

    Death Coil (23)
    91.3% Hit (21)
    4.3% Crit (1)
    4.3% Miss (1)

    Blood Strike (32)
    87.5% Hit (28)
    9.4% Crit (3)
    3.1% Dodge (1)Plague Strike (41)
    85.4% Hit (35)
    14.6% Crit (6)
    Blood Boil (38)
    92.1% Hit (35)
    4.3% Miss (2)
    2.6% Crit (1)
    Death and Decay (42)
    90.5% Hit (38)
    9.5% Miss (4)

    Death Strike (16)

    81.3% Hit (13)
    12.3% Crit (2)
    6.3% Dodge (1)

    Pestilence (22)
    86.4% Hit (19)
    13.6% Miss (3)

    Now, bear in mind the sample sizes are very small, so the exact percentages are not terribly reliable, but we're looking for a large difference, since the difference between expected spell and melee hit caps are 9% and 17%, so a full 8%, which should show up pretty plainly.

    There is nothing terribly surprising here, the things you think of as spells have a higher miss chance, and the things that are melee strikes follow melee special hit rules.

    At this point I'd like to investigate a couple things more thoroughly, specifically, get a larger sampling size to get a better sense of the functional miss chance against the boss for both spell and melee, and test the hit mechanism on Unholy Blight. It would seem that every tick has an individual hit roll. It may be something more like other dots where the first tick can be resisted but the effect will continue without additional hit rolls after that.
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  2. #2
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    I noticed this the other day while playing around with some different tanking specs. I attempted a Frost spec (I normally tank Heroics Unholy as the AE threat is really good) as I wanted to work in the 3% mitigation and the single target threat looks like it might be better.

    To my surprise my threat vs the target dummy was TERRIBLE, and I think hit is largely to blame.

    I noted my IT and Howling Blast both had a hard time connecting to the boss. This also caused a real problem in generating RP to use Frost strike as I was wasting GCs due to missing with these 2 "spells".

    Any comments here from you Frost DKs? How's the threat?

  3. #3
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    I do fine with threat, single target threat is pretty hard to touch, and my aoe is better than subsistant though it is hard to keep it above Bladestorm+Recklessness+Trinkets (as my Arms warrior loves to pull when he can =D).

    It can benefit from more hit, though it doesn't require any sort of hit cap to be effective. Another way to look at it is that it can benefit more from more hit rating than other specs. I don't notice the misses as much, even though when I clocked it on the boss dummy it was around 6-8% with no one else's buffs. Have you experimented with a build with Virulence? I don't often taking it, but the more I've played with WWS and such the more I'm thinking it might be useful for my Frost tanking spec, boosting threat consistancy.

    That being said, I haven't been tanking as much as Frost lately, though it has nothing to do with that. =)
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  4. #4
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    One question I have had, and maybe youd know the answer Satorri is some people arent too convinced all our "spells" boost from AP. Do you know if this is even remotely possible? With my own findings, the more AP the better.

    Edit: With our abilities being a spell class (i.e. frost, shadow, etc), they can be resisted. I have had an Icy touch or two resisted. Would we need to stack more than just the normal 9% melee hit to bring any misses/resists down from these spell classes? I havent really done much work with it yet (cuz im at work :-P) and really havent payed much attention to any misses or resists. I would suspect that if (and im sure it does) our abilities scale off AP, would that mean that the miss/resist rate would also scale from melee hit chance? With some classes like warlocks, having to stack large amounts of hit with certain specs, could this be the case for some of our spell class abilities? I will try to do some testing when I get home but if what I think is right, then we may not have to worry about much other than the melee hit cap. Just some random thoughts while I am bored at work.
    Last edited by Blueduck3285; 12-18-2008 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    I was hopeful that we'd follow a touch-attack sort of rule (for those who're otherwise RPG fans =D), but sadly the breakdown is pretty clear.

    Strikes that are logically weapon attacks,
    Blood Strike, Plague Strike, Obliterate, Death Strike, Scourge Strike, Frost Strike, Heart Strike, Rune Strike, Blood-caked Strike, and straight up auto-attacking
    All adhere to the melee hit rating requirement (9%. whether you're using a 2-hander or dual wielding, except of course for auto-attacks).

    "Spell" abilities,
    Icy Touch, Death Coil, Death and Decay, Unholy Blight, Pestilence, Corpse Explosion, Howling Blast, Blood Boil
    All use the spell hit chance (17% on a raid boss). Note, diseases have no hit rating dependencies only the moves that apply them. Once a disease is applied it will always tick.

    Also, remember, this only comes into play with Raid bosses. In 5-mans and raid trash, I don't track a discernable miss % with my ~8.5% tank gear/racial hit chance (plus the hit improvements of anyone in the group). I'm liking Virulence these days for matters of raid boss dps, but like I said, that's ONLY for bosses, so unless I'm dual wield frost dpsing, I wouldn't take the talent really.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

  6. #6
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    This concludes the idea that someone was stating that our hit rating for spells is linked to our melee hit and not spell hit.

    Thanks Satorri, it helps for people to know this, actually. But really our spell abilities should never of been doubted. People may of been quite grumbly (Casters in particular) that we had a far lower hit rating to achieve 0% miss rating.

    However, 9% isn't the max anymore apparently. Many threads and theories have tested and it seems to be that 8% is now the two handed max hit rating, and this includes our melee type attacks you listed above.

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  7. #7
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    And I just realized I forgot to answer your first question.

    Almost all of our abilities scale off of AP, directly or indirectly.

    Strikes based on weapon damage scale off it through weapon damage (the weapon damage used is adjusted with AP as usual).

    Many of our spells scale off a factor of our AP. IT, HB, DC, DnD, etc.

    So far as I remember, there are only a few that do not scale on AP. I don't think Blood Boil does (please correct me, anyone), Corpse Explosion does not, Unholy Blight does not, and otherwise my memory is rusty.

    Needless to say, AP is a VERY valuable stat, and as a tank Strength gets us parry and AP, so it's a choice thing to have, preferable to straight AP at all times.
    The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
    The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
    -----------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Horacio View Post
    Who f-ing divided by zero?!?

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