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Thread: Vene's Quick and Dirty Pre-Naxx Prot DPS Guide

  1. #21
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    Very helpfull post Vene. You might want to update your tankingtips.com artical on "the new signs of a bad lvl 80 spec" though. A few of those suggestions, like improved rend, are "bad" on your list. The biggest thing that comes to my mind is whether or not it would make sense to perhaps wear gear with lots of SBV on it for improved SS damage when you're helping with dps? I'm assuming the SS is the reason you're not suggesting simply dual wielding 2 1h weps for this. But, from the gear I've seen, it looks like you have to choose between high hit and expertise, or actual tank gear with SBV. At the very least, what do you think SBV trinket usage vs pure dps trinkets, like haste or AP power/crit for dpsing purposes?

    One last thing since I haven't seen this discussed, how do you feel about using rend while Mting a boss with an enrage timer, i.e. the dps races, to speed up the dpsing? Is it worthwhile?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmurick View Post
    Very helpfull post Vene. You might want to update your tankingtips.com artical on "the new signs of a bad lvl 80 spec" though. A few of those suggestions, like improved rend, are "bad" on your list. The biggest thing that comes to my mind is whether or not it would make sense to perhaps wear gear with lots of SBV on it for improved SS damage when you're helping with dps? I'm assuming the SS is the reason you're not suggesting simply dual wielding 2 1h weps for this. But, from the gear I've seen, it looks like you have to choose between high hit and expertise, or actual tank gear with SBV. At the very least, what do you think SBV trinket usage vs pure dps trinkets, like haste or AP power/crit for dpsing purposes?

    One last thing since I haven't seen this discussed, how do you feel about using rend while Mting a boss with an enrage timer, i.e. the dps races, to speed up the dpsing? Is it worthwhile?
    Ya, I will definitely be following up with that post. People that follow my most recent specs closely will notice that I've pretty much speced into every single talent that I say not to. Which is done basically to test them further.

    Once you've reached the caps, I think that Strength is still the best stat to stack as it'll offer Block Value too plus improve your white damage, rage generation and damage of every other ability you use. For that reason, I think a dps trinket for the 2nd slot is worth it.

    Is Rend worth it while tanking? Seems like it could be especially if you're speced into Improved Rend. You'd definitely only want to replace a Devastate in your rotation with it though. Which leads of course to the next question, does that mean we should use the new major glyph of 6 seconds of additional Rend time as our 3rd Glyph (blocking, revenge) maybe...

    Scary to think that Rend might be used, a lot.

  3. #23
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    The glypy idea is an interesting one. Making rend last longer, though, would essentially just free up your ability to use another move like devistate during those 6 seconds instead of having to hit rend again for maximum dps though, correct? Since rend lasting longer doesn't really increase the damage. That is to say, while technically the same initial rend would do more dps, the overall bleed effect wouldn't be a higher percentage, so having a boss on rend for 1 minute would theoretically do the same damage whether you used 4 times or only 3, as long as it was up for the full minute duration. So I suppose the real question is whether not having to worry about tossing on rend again for an extra 6 seconds is really going to matter much. My gut tells me its not going to be a noticable difference in dps on any fights where noticable differences are a must, like a boss with an enrage timer. But, then again, reaching the dps max is all about nickle and diming your stats, so perhaps it's still the best option?

    I will say I've tinkered with using rend in the past, but I've always felt like its damage was so small compared to real dpsers that ultimately I never died to an enrage feeling as if that extra 2,000 damage over the course of the fight would have saved the raid from a wipe. I suppose what I really want to figure out is whether or not theres any drawback to throwing it on, as in I could have better spent that fraction of a second using another move instead. If not, I guess I might as well keep it up the entire fight, right?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmurick View Post
    The glypy idea is an interesting one. Making rend last longer, though, would essentially just free up your ability to use another move like devistate during those 6 seconds instead of having to hit rend again for maximum dps though, correct?
    Hmm... good point. Ya, we probably won't want it then. Extra duration is kinda, bleh.

  5. #25
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    Greets!

    I've been testing out the mechanics listed in the guide, and I do have to say that improved rend has been a very pleasant surprise, so much that the "Bloody Tank" spec with Improved Rend and Deep Wounds is my favorite protection spec by far. I had a few additional comments.

    One thing I've noticed that wasn't mentioned in the guide is the increased 35% rend damage if applied when a mob is above 75%. Placing Rend earlier in the rotation for mobs that die quicker might then be more advantageous, i.e. Shield Slam, Revenge, Rend, Devastate, Devastate etc.

    Another observation I had was do you happen to have any thoughts about a quick and dirty prot warrior AOE DPS strategy? Off the top of my head, I'd say something like the usage of Thunderclap, Shockwave (both which activates deep wounds on crit), and Cleave. With the new Cleave Glyph coming shortly (increases affected targets from 2 to 3) that kind of approach may be useful to explain a bit.

    Lastly, keep up the good work!
    Stay strong. Stay smart. All heart.

  6. #26
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    I did some beating on dummies today, and the dualwield dev spam approach did about the same dps as S&B with SBV gear, but it definately felt more fun because you have more rage to spend and more buttons to press It also reminded me of the good old days of topping the meters as prot on archimonde when I let our offtank tank him for a change..nerf zerker rage, 98% dps time <3

  7. #27
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    Here is a recent 25 man raid where I found myself DPSing a lot of fights as prot in the lolfest that is Naxx.

    Wow Web Stats

    I DPSed on Anub'rekhan (2015 DPS), Maexnna (2678), Noth (2437), Heigan (2436), and Loatheb (4161, <3 spores).

    My numbers could have been higher had I not been testing the viability of leaving out WW on single targets. Also, on Loatheb we were going for the Sporeless achievement.. until a Ret Aura killed one of the spores. I used Dual Wield Devastate in berserker stance, did not reflask, and was specced 15/5/51.
    Last edited by larson; 12-19-2008 at 11:57 AM.

  8. #28
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    Just curious any updates or new thoughts on this subject?

    Our guild has a number of up and coming tanks that need spots in our 10-man naxx and i was trying to figure out how best to do DPS with my sword-n-board spec

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by frater View Post
    Just curious any updates or new thoughts on this subject?

    Our guild has a number of up and coming tanks that need spots in our 10-man naxx and i was trying to figure out how best to do DPS with my sword-n-board spec
    The biggest problem when it comes to Sword n Board style damage as Prot is getting rage starved. A lot of warriors prefer to go DW Devastate simply because it affords them the rage to be able to do their abilities.

    If you follow Vene's guide, you'll probably find the following to be true:

    In situations where you get rage by taking damage, Sword 'n Board yields higher DPS because then you have enough rage to do all your abilities.

    In situations where you don't get additional rage because you're simply not getting hit, DW Devastate typically yields higher DPS because you can generate enough rage via DW to do your abilities.

    I've been exploring different ways to get more rage when Sword and Boarding. one way I found was through Gear. Get your Hit/Expertise caps, then go high on Crit. Getting to 35% crit gives you enough rage to do your rotation.

    The other way is to respec to give you sufficient rage via talents to do the SnB rotation. I'm sporting a variation off the 15/5/51 that gives me enough rage to continually devastate for SnB procs when everything else is on cooldown.

    Spec: 16/4/51

    If you go this route, then gear up maximizing Str/AP.

    Ultimately though, it depends on how well you gear up. In terms of rotations, there's not much else you can do additionally that'll make a significant impact, so just choose the style that suits you for the gear you have.
    Stay strong. Stay smart. All heart.

  10. #30
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    Thank you!

    1) when you say 35% are you including the +15% crit from talents? (so I only need to get to 20% right?)
    2) And what kind of damage are you seeing in a typical boss fight, one with sustained dps?
    Last edited by frater; 01-27-2009 at 03:03 PM.

  11. #31
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    the issue with going sword n board -> DW devastate though is that normally you're gear just doesn't contain enough hit to fuel your rage either. I've found that keeping with sword/board i generate steadier rage because i only have a 8% chance to miss instead of when I dual wield where my white hit chance sky rockets to 27% chance to miss. In general if you have 2 really good weapons you'll probably get better rage DW but it's not guaranteed, it's very common to get into streaky rage situations due to chain misses.

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  12. #32
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    Actually, I meant 35% unbuffed crit not including talents. The upside is that when you combine them with the 15% crit bonus from talents, you have a 50% chance to Crit with Shield Slam, Devastate, Heroic Strike, Thunderclap, and Cleave, which works great with Impale and Deep Wounds. This is in alignment with the Arms gearing philosophy as opposed to the high Str/AP gearing philosophy of Fury.

    As for your second question, I'm not too sure. As much as I like to experiment, I barely have any opportunities to DPS in a Prot spec since I'm usually in a tanking role. I don't think though it would be outstanding DPS...maybe around 1600 for a 10 Man raid, and 2000 for a 25-man raid, but different circumstances like raid buffs and such may yield higher results.

    At the end of the day, if you really wanted to gain higher DPS than this, a respec would be the best option.
    Stay strong. Stay smart. All heart.

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