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Thread: Leave it to Cleaver

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Leave it to Cleaver

    Ok sorry for the lame title (for those who even get it ) but this topic stems from the Cleave glyph tweak. We dove in to reach DW, well could the Cleave change suggest a redirection as well? See what ya think!

    AoE Tankin [Prot 51pts tree left off to focus on remaining 20]
    Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
    Majors
    * New Cleave glyph [+1 target /rarr]
    * Blocking glyph [more D, more rage]
    * Revenge glyph [still solid per below]
    Minors, use to taste

    [51pt Prot tree thought in line with much of the chatter to date]

    Arms - Parry remains in, but that's it.
    We only use HS when single target and/or free
    Otherwise you are Cleaving away with your 'next strikes'

    Fury - We get AttT, all Cruelty, ends that debate
    We also get Unbridled Wrath that works with Cleave (yay!)
    And then Improved Cleave which works on more targets
    Feel free to move Piercing Howl -> another UW point if don't want it

    - Incite works with Cleave, x3 crit chances with 5/5 cruel yay!
    - When solo targ, revenge/HS reliance still works, still have good burn
    - Traditional mechanics in place, with Cleave spam for next strike rage dump

    Thought I'd put it out there to chew on (or chew up )

  2. #2
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    It might be ok once Dual Spec comes out. Otherwise, you are just spec'ing for trash. Spec'ing for trash is never a good idea. I wouldn't even use my Dual Spec to spec for trash. I'd use my Dual Spec for a dps spec for fights, or nights, when we are overflowing with tanks.

  3. #3
    Awesome topic title, I lol'd

  4. #4
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    The title is full of win.

    I agree with Jathine here: while it might make for a better AoE tanking build, its single-target threat is going to be worse. I wouldn't use it as my normal spec, but it does look pretty interesting with regards to AoE threat.

    I've been meaning to do some numbers on DW and AoE tanking - I'll try to factor this in if I manage to get around to it.

  5. #5
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    Nods /agree - I've been thinking about this for an AoE 2nd spec, maybe it has to wait for that

    And right who will win for the AoE crown - DW or Cleave?
    Before the Glyph it seemed DW had it made but I think this might be a challenger now.
    But as you go past 3 mobs DW makes more ground with TC/reflective

    Can't wait till my Warriors up there to help test, been a busy month IRL =b

  6. #6
    I think it's an excellent glyph if you mainly spend your time running heroics. If you time is split between 25-mans and some 10-mans, I think it's not so good. For raids, I think you really want to focus on bosses, but heroics, increasing your trash dps should really help your group a great deal.

    If there were a boss in a raid dungeon which greatly benefited from this Glyph -- I guess there would be 3 equally "bossy" mobs in the encounter who could be tanked next to each other AND there was a delicate enrage timer -- then it might be worthwhile. We could use our Dual Spec for this (like others mentioned). However, I'd much rather use it for a dps spec so I can provide competitive dps on low tank-count encounters.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by suesse_llane View Post
    I think it's an excellent glyph if you mainly spend your time running heroics. If you time is split between 25-mans and some 10-mans, I think it's not so good. For raids, I think you really want to focus on bosses, but heroics, increasing your trash dps should really help your group a great deal.

    If there were a boss in a raid dungeon which greatly benefited from this Glyph -- I guess there would be 3 equally "bossy" mobs in the encounter who could be tanked next to each other AND there was a delicate enrage timer -- then it might be worthwhile. We could use our Dual Spec for this (like others mentioned). However, I'd much rather use it for a dps spec so I can provide competitive dps on low tank-count encounters.
    how ever, if your considered a "MT" or one of the 2 tanks in a small guild this would be a decent spec to go with for heroics and 10 man trash. i only tank, and when dual specs come out i will be offspecing a trash spec for tanking as well.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreg View Post
    i only tank, and when dual specs come out i will be offspecing a trash spec for tanking as well.
    I hear alot of this kind of talk, but I don't think it is going to be as simple as some people are assuming. I don't think they're going to impliment dual specs in such a way that people will be able to swap between them during instances or raids. I heard that, unless you are in a city, swapping to your 2nd-spec and back will not be a matter of simply opening your talent window and selecting the spec you want...

    I could be mistaken, but if not, it makes a gimmicky spec like this less attractive to me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stompbox View Post
    I could be mistaken, but if not, it makes a gimmicky spec like this less attractive to me.
    Well I posted it on the theory section for a reason

    Also considering more than just raiding - indeed, I'm not particularly close to that right now. MT regular/heroic 5 mans with AoE DPS, or an AoE solo grind-away spec for dailies, rep, levelling - can it compete with Prot/DW, or even other tree standouts that lay packs of mobs at your feet?

    Really it was just to start some chatter about how the Cleave tweak might grab you or switch a little thought or even a little balance of power its way, even with the focus on Arms or Fury instead - I've just been all Prot lately

  10. #10
    I am going to replace Glyph of Heroic Strike with Glyph of Cleave, mainly because I am a selfish asshole. Glyph of Heroic feels like it might be a bit of overkill, anyways, but I'll be keeping an eye on it in any case. I see no reason to change my whole spec though, especially not for improved cleave.
    [18:19:08] [R] [80:Neuter:1]: if bush can dodge a shoe, you can dodge the wall

  11. #11
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    While I haven't looked at numbers, my first instinct would be to dismiss this because of how powerful Impale/Deep Wounds is. The Cleave glyph is good, but it doesn't necessarily warrant going any deeper in Fury than the 5 points we already do. Don't overlook Improved Charge -- the extra initial rage helps a lot on precisely the packs we're AOE'ing down anyway (trash where initial burst is important).

    Right now, Deep Wounds rarely makes up less than 7% of my damage, often much higher.

  12. #12
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    The cleave glyph is a nice toy but it still doesn't take care of the fundamental problem of having extreme numbers of targets (6 or 7+). We just don't have the same utility as the other 3 aoe tanks in those situations since TC is vastly inferior to all the alternatives and tab + single target gets less and less effective as the number of targets goes up.

    I would not go out of my way for this glyph. It will not make a significant difference where it counts.

  13. #13
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    Nods, thanks Cider, Light - I think I had a [fun, but still a] knee jerk reaction to the glyph change.
    It still has a bit of a funny niche where it's not single target nor unlimited AoE.
    I suppose it could be the master of specific 3 mob fights tho

    edit - if it surprises me with effectiveness (probably waits on dual spec) I'll be back with it

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