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Thread: Is defense ever better to stack instead of P/D?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Is defense ever better to stack instead of P/D?

    I have the graph bookmarked for easy and speedy reference which helps me decide whether or not dodge is better than parry, or vice versa. However, I seem to remember a few posters suggesting that defense is a superior stat to stack for DK's, in particular.

    Now, with the change to IBF, I was wondering if any of the math wizards out there have come up with a relationship between defense, parry and dodge.

    PS. I suck at high level math...I'm in sales!

    Here is the graph I referenced above. Originally created by Xerophyte.

    Last edited by Jandon; 12-12-2008 at 02:18 PM.

  2. #2
    The graph was originally made by Xerophyte on the EJ forums in this post:

    Avoidance Diminishing Returns - Elitist Jerks

    The math you are looking for was already done, though not including the changes you requested with IBF, by WhiteTooth/Muphrid.

    Combat Ratings at level 80 - Page 13 - Elitist Jerks

    In the TTL math, it can be shown, and again restated by WhiteTooth in my thread here on tankspot, that if ONLY defense is added it gives MORE avoidance than stacking pure dodge or parry due to the spread out over the DR curves. However, no math has yet been done to include the benifite of defense if parry/dodge are already added (at least that I've seen). So the answer to your question would depend on your already exist gear stats.

    My thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitetooth View Post
    Block is not considered at all in my graph, defense is better simply because is gives more avoidance under the same amount of item value.

    For example:
    2000 Parry rating = 22.32869363% Parry
    2000 Dodge rating = 33.16162431% Dodge
    2000 Agi (War/DK) = 21.50812438% Dodge + 4000 Armor
    2000 Agi (Pal) = 27.59166181% Dodge + 4000 Armor
    2000 Defense Rating = 14.26064579% Dodge + 12.49202826% Parry + 5.6% Crit Avoidance + 14.26064579% Miss(Assuming same DR as Dodge) = 46.61331984%
    In the above you can see that defense gives the most avoidance point per point, if it's the only stat added, once you start hitting the DR curves hard. If you already had enough dodge, it would be possible to get more avoidance from parry than defense, or dodge if you had too much parry rather than defense. Also note that the 5.6% crit chance is added in because it's a TTL calculation (an effective 2nd hit until you are crit immune), but even if you take that out, defense still gives more avoidance point per point once you hit the DR curves if it's the only stat added.

    IMO the best way currently to figure this out is with rating buster, or simply use the known DR values to figure out what your avoidance would be if you added ____ defense given ____ parry and dodge already on your gear.

    Point per point, not including already existing avoidance stats, defense is already the best even before any changes to IBF. But that doesnt mean you should always stack defense over parry or dodge, depends what your current stats are like.

    With the advent of DR, the particular "value" of ANY given tank avoidance stat can change such that it's possible for dodge, parry, or defense to be the best thing to stack depending on what you already have on your current gear.

    Sorry for not answering your IBF question though, frankly I am ignorant to what it even is (I dont know DK's well).

    though, you have given me an itch to solve the same math in my thread above but with a 3rd equation for defense, which would be excessively more complicated and would give you a 3 variable graph instead of a 2 variable graph (3d graph), in which if on any given axis you are above the 3d curve in the graph you should stack more of the other 2 stats, which one to stack is the one least along in its axis at that point.

    Sadly I dont have time to do this right now, but maybe in a little while I'll do such a thing.
    Last edited by shushikiary; 12-12-2008 at 02:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    It's alright, the IBF change is still a bit up in the air due to it being on PTR. If I remember correctly, at 400 defense, it will mitigate an additional 20%, and at the soft-crit cap of 540, it will mitigate an additional 35%(?)

    I don't have confirmed numbers mostly because things on PTR are subject to change.

    So basically, as far as itemization, defense is the most avoidance for the cheapest cost. I've got a defense skill of approximately 544 (varies as I play with avoidances). According to the graph above, dodge is the stat that I should be stacking. According to your analysis, defense is the best stat to stack per itemization...

    ...don't mind me, things are getting fuzzy, like when I look at all the math that some people put up

    I'll just continue to maintain my soft-crit cap while stacking avoidances according to the above mentioned graph.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    The problem with defense versus dodge is that nobody's sure exactly what "to be missed" diminishes to. If it's a very high number, like dodge, than defense very quickly becomes superior to pure dodge. If it's a lower number, like parry, then dodge edges out defense by a little bit until you get quite a lot of dodge.

    Warriors and pallies also get block, which makes it better than pure avoidance.

    Death knights don't get block, but with icebound fortitude... heh, one more factor to throw in the math.

    The good news is that the difference is fairly small either way. You have to have a HUGE amount of dodge for more dodge to be a waste compared to more def. You have to have an outrageous def for more def to be a waste compared to dodge.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    There's a sticky at the top of this forum that should answer your questions.

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