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Thread: mobs moving around/behind tanks

  1. #21
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    Outside of instances I've noticed this as well - at times I have to shuffle [a lot] more.
    Quite annoying.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by veneretio View Post
    Drakes are definitely the biggest offenders of this. The stupid drake rider near the end of Utgarde Keep is probably the worst mob in the game for this with Sartharion's drakes coming in a close 2nd. The drakes earlier in Utgarde Keep are pretty annoying too. I certainly wouldn't mind them making these mobs a little less annoying if they could.
    And don't forget the Stormpeak Wyrms! If they're not ninjaing my Rhino's they're annoying me with their hit boxes.


    But personally, I can't recall too much of a problem with Satharion's drakes. Does being a gnome still affect your hit box to NPC's? That might be why. Or else I'm lucky/haven't noticed.
    Bihn | <Summit>
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  3. #23
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    Yah, i really hate this. Nothing makes mages mad like the tank dragging stuff out of their blizzard.
    Worst case of this was on grobbulus last week. Was dragging him back towards the entrance, he was at 30%, when he ran THROUGH me, turned around behind me, and spit on the raid. Long story short, 10 slimes ate the raid pretty fast.
    Bet this has allready been said, but i bet this problem is due to server/client lag. Example: "You back up. Mob runs to you. You stop. Mob still thinks you are moving. Runs past you. Server tells it you stoped a ways back. Mob turns around and slaps your back."

  4. #24
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    on the topic of knockbacks: as soon as the mobs leave my consecration i do less dps/tps on them, hence no knockbacks for me pls
    additionally they ten do leave the blizzard/random other aoe effects and therefore delay the groups progress (10/25man naxx come to my mind).

  5. #25
    i enjoy dancing with grob, ive found the easiest if not good way to fix the problem is to tank him roughly 5-7 yards from the wall, this way if he runs through you, just back into the wall, it will cancel his run animation since an NPC normally wont run into a wall becuase of collision factors and gives you a buffer zone to work, then slowly work your way back out from the wall next time you move him. As for mex, i dont worry to much about her moving, she single targets the tank anyway, so thats free dps w/o hits, but she makes up for it during web wraps. For trash, i like to stay mobile when i tank, standing still just isnt an option, for heroics i like doing it since a few mobs here and there have stuns that i dont normally see and when i just stop moving i know im stunned and aleart melee to whats going on. and it keeps me from getting bored with an included view of the area so i know how im gonna set up my next pull. reason being looting nearly 400 heroic (5mans) badges you tend to get bored with whats going on.

  6. #26
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    The easiest way to tank grob is just to hit your / to switch to walk mode and put a paperweight on your back key while you mouse turn. He will very rarely go out of range and he will never pass you. The clouds will despawn before you make a full cycle around the room.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightmgl View Post
    The easiest way to tank grob is just to hit your / to switch to walk mode and put a paperweight on your back key while you mouse turn. He will very rarely go out of range and he will never pass you. The clouds will despawn before you make a full cycle around the room.
    Your melees will probably eat a few disease cloud ticks if you move him this slow after he drops one.

  8. #28
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    Just popped in to give you a tip on Sartharion adds moving randomly and how to avoid it. The only one I've ever seen do this is Tenebron. He seems to go ape shit crazy whenever he hatches eggs and will fly in a random direction for a few seconds. This can get your raid breathed if he breathes while flying back to you as well as costing you valuable melee dps time if you're doing 3 drakes.

    To avoid this, when you see the egg hatching cast bar, run out of melee range of him. You have to be fast at this as you don't have much time. If you make it out of melee range before he finishes the cast, he will just fly straight to you like normal and won't go off randomly. If you're doing 3 drakes, he will only get off 1 egg hatch. To set this up pretty well, try and tank him near where he lands, and then when the egg hatch comes, run to where the 2nd will land. He will come straight to you and you'll be in the perfect position to get the 2nd one when it lands.

    The only plausible explanation I can come up for is that there is an agro wipe for anyone in melee range upon an egg hatching. I'm pretty sure it's just a bug and not supposed to work that way, but there you go.

  9. #29
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    I experience the same problems with a whole load of mobs where they'll (AoE wise) spread out in a wide arc around me or even walk right through my model and end up behind me. The ones that move behind me aren't bad, but the wide arc of mobs can become an issue.

    Also, I'd have to agree with a LOT of (boss) hitboxes seeming tiny, Grob and Maex being two shining examples. Then we have Heigan the Unclean whose hitbox is the size of a 747. . . *sigh*

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgo View Post
    Your melees will probably eat a few disease cloud ticks if you move him this slow after he drops one.
    Then your melee needs to learn they don't have to stand exactly behind a boss. If they're attacking from the side, but still staying behind him, they'll stay out of range of the clouds.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bihn View Post
    And don't forget the Stormpeak Wyrms! If they're not ninjaing my Rhino's they're annoying me with their hit boxes.


    But personally, I can't recall too much of a problem with Satharion's drakes. Does being a gnome still affect your hit box to NPC's? That might be why. Or else I'm lucky/haven't noticed.
    From what I know they normalized hitbox (sad tauren )

    When we started out with Grobbulus we did it like they did in the 40 mans( I think), where I kept him close to the wall next to the ramp, melee on slugs and casters on Grob and dragging him bit by bit backwards and turning him and walking back when I came to the little "room"(think it might also be called cubby or something). Anyways. this is where I started to notice him walking through me, ending up next to me with his face towards the casters. Only fun thing was that I could get him to not hit me for like 5 seconds ^^ I couldnt him either though. killed him 3 times this way.

    After seeing Cider's movie we went with that tactic and now I cant say I really have any problems(lady luck ^^) with moving him around the room.
    Noraxe
    Magtheridon EU

  12. #32
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    ah!! im so glad its not just me. i thought it was my wimpy undead female toon that was the problem

    i remember before LK i only ever had issues with hitboxes on Twins. they would move around me SO much it made me want to throw my computer out my window. between their casts, they would decide to walk through me quite often and then almost annihilate me from behind. but it seems that it is even worse with this xpac.

    drakes are a problem for sure. as far as the other tanks in my guild say, it just flies away form you and pats strangely whenever she lays eggs. but why should it? its just stupid. PLUS the hitbox on drakes is ridiculously small. and meelee even have a hard time between the hitbox and all the moving going on. let alone the risk of random people being breathed on.

    Grob i also find annoying to tank, he can walk through me at times, and he also reacts weirdly if i go too close to the wall amongst all the other things people have said so far.

    however i do find issues with some trash. one that comes to mind is the dragon trash in sarth (the 4 packs). i found when i was solo-tanking those pulls on a 10 man run that they they continuously move and reposition around me, as if the AI of the mobs was just going completely awol.

    i guess they 'try' to form an even arc around my front, but while they all try to do it at the same time, push each other out and all over the place. actually leaving one or 2 of them OUT of meelee range and usually one or 2 actually moving behind me. thus frustrating not only me but the aoe and everything else. i dont understand why they 'tried' to change hitboxes or 'enhance' the AI of mobs, because its just broken!

    and of course the more mobs a tank has on them, the more the problem amplifies.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Lexxaa View Post
    i remember before LK i only ever had issues with hitboxes on Twins.
    I'd take Twins hitboxes over the dance I have to do with Grobb every week

  14. #34
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    I have had the same issues with grob, I take him for a walk after he makes a poison patch and stop, he then reaches me and turns around walks a bit backwards and faces me again, what I do is I stop and right when he's about to reach me I take an extra little step backwards, seems to work most of the time.

    On the issue of keeping mobs in front of me, rather then walking backwards, I walk backwards a little and a little strafe to the left (maybe right will work also but I'm lefthanded) and ofcourse change my camera to face the group.
    I found this method working much better for keeping mobs in front and in range then just moving backwards.


    On the matter of knockbacks: I have yet to see a well placed knockback. I know it can be done just...................other players tend to use em for fun and don't know (yet) how to use them effectively.
    They're just like (aoe)fears: very powerfull when used on a well timed moment but selldomly used.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    I have had the same issues with grob, I take him for a walk after he makes a poison patch and stop, he then reaches me and turns around walks a bit backwards and faces me again, what I do is I stop and right when he's about to reach me I take an extra little step backwards, seems to work most of the time.
    This is what I wind up doing with Grobbulus too, unfortunately it doesn't seem foolproof simply because I'm playing with a margin of error of about one yard at the edge of his hitbox. It is, however, about the only thing that prevents him from just up and doing the "hurpty dur, I'm going to turn my back to you and slowly walk backwards until I like my hitbox again" thing.

    I can't help but wonder if taller tanks have an easier time of this, since their sense of spatial relation to the boss lets them "feel" like they are in the right place more easily than I do(dwarf).

    On knockbacks...I hate them, but very, very rarely see them. I place mobs where I want them and I don't pull what I can't handle the damage from, so I don't need or want help in the form of a knockback on either of these fronts.

  16. #36
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    I've always had issues with mobs moving in through me, but its worse in LK, and my weirdest problem is that mobs will suddenly, for no reason, turn around, run about 20 yards away from me, pause, turn, and come back.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreg View Post
    however I would like to disagree with those who get aggravated with knock backs, generally speaking they help positioning if its well placed and angled. really what do you find so terrible about knock backs that you kick people from your groups? it helps you take less damage, and the mobs come right back to you. maybe its that I only have knock backs happen in guild groups from our ele shaman or that i have an ele shaman alt, but i find knock backs a very useful tool and quite entertaining to watch even from a tanking perspective.
    Except that the knockbacks aren't being used for this purpose. They are used to suppliment caster DPS or for mana regen (Shamans). In fact, it's such a problem that the Devs will be introducing Glyphs that will remove the knockback effect.

    It's also a good indicator of a bad DPS party member and someone who has no reason to use the spell except that it looks cool and has a new effect.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreg View Post
    however I would like to disagree with those who get aggravated with knock backs, generally speaking they help positioning if its well placed and angled. really what do you find so terrible about knock backs that you kick people from your groups? it helps you take less damage, and the mobs come right back to you. maybe its that I only have knock backs happen in guild groups from our ele shaman or that i have an ele shaman alt, but i find knock backs a very useful tool and quite entertaining to watch even from a tanking perspective.
    If the knockbacks are coordinated and done for specific purpose which works well, yeah, cool. This is going to be pretty common in guild or other tight-knit groups who know each other and communicate. In heroic PUGs, however, I've occasionally run into knockback-happy folks who just indiscrimately throw the mobs around (usually just after I've rounded up a group and arranged them nicely for my tab-targeting rotation). I find it a monumental P.I.T.A. I certainly haven't gone so far as to kick folks for doing it, but yeah it's annoying.

    Completely off-topic, but since I'm whining about things that bug me...last night in heroic CoS PUG had a hunter with a big moth for a pet (I guess maybe something from Sholazar, dunno, hadn't seen this particular critter before). Dang thing filled up my screen and made click-targeting quite difficult, not to mention it just really obscured my view generally. Just annoyed the bejesus out of me. (I've gotten a lot better at tab-targeting recently, but in CoS I still tend to click-target a lot because there's usually quite a few of the little zombies around and I have to tab through several of them to get to the bigger elites....in this instance, I find it easier to click-target).

  19. #39
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    hell, I haven't even got to start trying sarth with drakes yet, my problem has been with Sartharion himself moving on me. And it shouldn't be related to dancing around waves, I just have him where I want him, the last wave was several seconds (like 15-20) back, I'm standing there just shield slamming my heart out and suddenly he decides to take 3 steps to my left (big dragon steps) and attack me from there. Aggravating as hell, especially since it leads to more moving on subsequent lava walls.

    On large multi-target pulls (more world grinding than trash), I've had similar issues as someone else mentioned with many spreading around me, rather than staying in front making shockwave less effective.

    Little more than an annoyance in most cases, but still something that I wouldn't think should be happening.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreg View Post
    has any one else noticed that in WotLK mobs are moving around to your sides and behind you a lot more than they did before?

    I find my self walking backwards for most of pulls trying to keep things in front of me.

    also I wasn't sure what forum to put this in, I figure its a theory so ill put it in theorycraft =).

    Yes. It gets noying if i have to tank aoe, wich causes my swiping a trouble. Especially anoying in HoS Heroic (event boss) when i try to get all the mobs on me and swipe them away, they just get behind, and once my front targets are dead i have to moove around, which sometimes cause me miss on incoming mobs and going backwards sometimes is too slow (thinking of too slow dps in party...). Mobs behind me is a killer even if we do the rest of the instance without any problems. This is the only place it causes me noticible trouble though.

    Edit: Also, pets geting behind targets: if we are short of space between pulls (say, no corners to pull casters etc..)and I stand just in right place to tank - pets get behind the targets always pull next group which cause more touble.
    Last edited by Millet; 01-03-2009 at 08:40 AM.
    .......Millet
    <Remorseless>

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