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Thread: Naxxramas Four Horsemen

  1. #81
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    Mar 2009
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    Players who play at the back should make a video for 25naxx.
    We are consistently wiping on 25naxx 4horse. I never do the back because I am always pushed to do the front to tank, so I have no idea what is going on back there. We just see hunters/warlocks/etc dying and then we all get a massive aoe wipe.

    We do the blust and burn method but by the time we start killing baron, we get blasted by a aoe because people in the back die. I don't know WHY they die, maybe it is because of staying in range or not enough heals because I hear people complaining about 20k dmg or 10k dmg..

    We tried 2healers/1warlock/1hunter in the back but they all died.
    Everybody is in val, etc, etc but I just don't know what is going on back there..

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaogen View Post
    Players who play at the back should make a video for 25naxx.
    We are consistently wiping on 25naxx 4horse. I never do the back because I am always pushed to do the front to tank, so I have no idea what is going on back there. We just see hunters/warlocks/etc dying and then we all get a massive aoe wipe.

    We do the blust and burn method but by the time we start killing baron, we get blasted by a aoe because people in the back die. I don't know WHY they die, maybe it is because of staying in range or not enough heals because I hear people complaining about 20k dmg or 10k dmg..

    We tried 2healers/1warlock/1hunter in the back but they all died.
    Everybody is in val, etc, etc but I just don't know what is going on back there..
    On 25 man its tougher to tank the back with squishies as the bosses hit a lot harder than on 10 man.

    When we do 25 we usually have 4 tanks, so we have two on the front two on the back, if we only have 3 we have the third tank on the back with a dps death knight or something. We back these up with 2 or 3 healers. The usual method of tagging the mob when you get to it and then standing 10 yards back to avoid melee (still making sure you are the closest person in the raid to the boss). 3 stacks and swap.

    Not sure how you are doing it but there is plenty of ways people can die in the back; healers too close to the boss, people not swapping, "tanks" meleeing the bosses and so on. In 25 man its much less forgiving than in 10.

  3. #83
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    Problem in back? Tag the mobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthRegis View Post
    Second wipe, AoE'd to bits but we were pretty sure our positioning back there was fine.
    Third wipe, same as second. So much that the resto druid was standing practically next to the lady DK.

    So, other than the 45 yard radius those two should be in... is there anything in particular about positioning with those back two? (ie: have to be standing in front of them, etc)
    I had this same problem myself. It really seems like a bug, but either way the solution is this:

    The two "tanks" start off close to the corners in the back. Somebody makes the pull and the 4H run to their corners. As soon as they get to the back, both of the people in the back must tag them somehow. Throw a DoT, a ranged weapon, whatever. As a holy priest I just throw a Shadow Word: Pain.

    At that point, you should have aggro and they should begin wailing on the two back "tanks" just the way you expect. Then you can move backward toward the center of the back strip so that the healer can target both people at the same time. You can get pretty far; damn near to the center of the back, but as long as the healer back there can target both players it's good enough.

    You do NOT need to tag the mobs again when you switch. After the initial pull + tag, everything works much as you expect. One quick tip is to make sure you're relatively well healed-up before you switch; you can easily take 2-4 hits in the back before you switch, get to the other side, plant and get your next heal off (if you don't have many instant heals).

    After that just remember that in the back, your only job is to live long enough for the front to come down and help you. Don't worry about DPS or anything; anything you do back there is just a bonus. If you have a pet of any sort, you can use it. As a holy priest I usually start out in the back right corner, and the second time I get to the back left I throw my shadowfiend. In addition to getting some much-needed mana at that point, he also tanks Lady while he's out (and since she's shadow damage, he seems to last longer on that side--but maybe that's my imagination). It's a nice breather to only focus on one person back there for 10 seconds.

  4. #84
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    great and this video helped me alot and i am a tank myelf in arie peak and a orc warrior and my gild is helping me my gear and this is a good fight for the helm that drops.

  5. #85
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    Question about the marks; lets say u are holding off 1 horsemen while the raid takes the other one across, when u see 3 marks on you, do u just immediately go to the other horsemen or do you wait for the MT to run over and taunt, and then you go to the other one? Or is it just: you see 3 marks head to the other horsemen right away?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by chau297 View Post
    Question about the marks; lets say u are holding off 1 horsemen while the raid takes the other one across, when u see 3 marks on you, do u just immediately go to the other horsemen or do you wait for the MT to run over and taunt, and then you go to the other one? Or is it just: you see 3 marks head to the other horsemen right away?
    Well both sides will get 3 marks at the same time. We get someone to call out on vent when to switch then both tanks run to the middle and taunt off each other so both the horsemen change targets at the same time.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xar View Post
    The two "tanks" start off close to the corners in the back. Somebody makes the pull and the 4H run to their corners. As soon as they get to the back, both of the people in the back must tag them somehow. Throw a DoT, a ranged weapon, whatever. As a holy priest I just throw a Shadow Word: Pain.
    Thanks for the tip, and this was precisely our problem. Our back two were not getting aggro on their repsective boss to start. And actually the healer and hunter back there can go a fairly long time - such that the front groups can heal up and let their marks expire before going to take out the back bosses. Heck, last time we did them, I stayed at the front and took a phone call from work while everyone else did the work. XD


    Our only other issue outside of that now is switching the bosses at the front. Mostly with hit rating/getting aggro... but it mostly goes smooth now.

  8. #88
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    As counter intuitive as it sounds, if a guild is having problems with 25 man 4H, there's two things you can do to really simplify the encounter:

    1) Go for the achievement. It sounds stupid, but the issue of not having enough people by making 2 melee and 2 ranged groups fully independent of each other will make it a lot easier on you in the long run. The achievement makes the fight easier for most people.

    2) For the back "tanks" have two locks with Voidwalkers out with buffs on the pets. Since most locks are demo right now, the bolts from the casters do maybe 5-5.5K damage to the pet, and with 40-45K health in raid gear (not pvp gear), they're ridiculously easy to heal.

    Put all melee up front. If you're short on melee, put mages up front over Hunters. Mages can stand point blank on the melee horsemen so Meteor won't be a problem; Hunters still need 5 yards and depending on eye-distance a Hunter can be too far out without realizing it and die. Split up ranged DPS on the back and just make it a controlled burn, with melee moving with the tanks or tanks only moving the horsemen in the front -- either way is fine.

    If you have them in the raid, use three locks. Have two engage the back two horsemen, and have the third stand on the center platform. After 1 mark, 3rd lock relieves the Zeliek lock, who (Zeliek lock) goes to relieve Lady lock, who (Lady lock) then goes to the platform to wait off the debuff. Cycle, rinse, and repeat for victory. Aside from void zones and Holy Wrath from Zeliek, this limits all damage from the Horsemen themselves onto the voidwalkers ONLY and since it's small amounts of damage fewer healers are needed overall for the back since the warlocks can just help heal via Health Funnel.

    Doing the fight this way A) gets you the achievement but B) gets your guild more used to focusing on coordination instead of just zerging something, especially if its a newer guild. Even if you wipe the first time trying this (most do, because it's so "different" than just zerging the damn things) I think you'll be seriously surprised by how far you go before everything hits the fan. Our first time we had a Paladin and Druid in tank gear in the back and healing was an issue, but managed to get to 20% before everyone died; switched to the voidwalkers when a warlock commented on how little damage his pet was taking and it was smooth sailing.

    Healing's a lot "easier" and more manageable this way. In fact, only the front becomes really difficult healing wise and that's only on transitions. Just get to 2 marks from Thane, and start moving as soon as the next Meteor goes off and you'll be fine.

  9. #89
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    It's also worth mentioning that the biggest cause of wipes in this encounter arises when the raid members in the back of the room die before the bulk of the raid can join them so its probably most important to ensure you have this set up thoroughly before you begin the encounter. I've done it previously with several different combinations of classes but due to the relatively low damage the Baron and Thane deal, it's never a bad idea to put the strongest healer(s) in the back, particularly shaman or paladins with plenty of health. The sooner the bulk of the raid reaches the back two horsemen you should have little difficulty with this boss. I've seen 7 members finish the encounter in the 25 man version just to add some perspective.

  10. #90
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    Quick question our 10 man raid we do this and I always Die. watching your video you do it completly different then how we do it where instead of the tanks moving to the other horsemen the tanks move the horsemen to the other side. Im always gitting hit by the metor *I heal* and die quickly there after *full health 99% of the time with about 15K health*. I stay stacked on my tank during metor but never seem to live thru it... What in the world could i be doing wrong??? also the two ppl in the back stay in range so lady doesnt do her unyelding pain. thank you very much!!!
    Last edited by Kittymewmew; 04-17-2009 at 12:06 PM.

  11. #91
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    Apr 2009
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    Hi, all... are there any changes with the new patch? My guild used to have Naxx on regular farming... but this time the guys at the back were receiving too much dmg/sec on 10 men which is really odd. It is hard to say what exactly went wrong, tho..
    Also we experienced a bug on Instructor boss... the orbs were unactive.
    So is that a bug, or Naxx has changed?
    Thx

  12. #92
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    4 Horsemen 2 healer strat

    My guild never always has the correct grp makeup for this fight... we have to have our Disc priest in the back usually with a hunter or ret pally. We have our Resto Druid with the OT and the rest of the DPS on Thane. As the MT and a Prot Pally, I have come across a great way to be able to solo Baron so the rest of my grp can take Thane down in one shot, and we dont have Bloodlust, or Heroism for those Ally players. First off it is kinda based off of the Paladin's Spl Pwr and I don't advise anyother tank try this. I have over 41k hp fully raid buffed, so my spl pwr is usually over about 800. What the Pally tank should do is Seal Light and judge light. save your mana for heals after that... It's really easy in the begining but you will have to use a few holy lights on yourself. As a Prot Pally you should have that talent that grants you 30% more spl pwr based on your stam, so you should have 30% more healed on your crits. Its nice to get lucky and crit heal yourself for about 14k but its not required for this to work. Now after Thane is down and the main grp is moving over to Baron I take my healer and head to the back as my main grp with our Resto Druid can handle atleast 5 "Marks" before trouble happens. I look at my raid bars and see who is in the most trouble and head that way. My guild developed this strat only because we had a new raider in out grp that didnt understand to stay at a ranged distance in the back so we did wipe about 5 times before we did this strat... And now that he has it down we never use anything else and we always one shot 4HM.

  13. #93
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    My guild just started to run 10 man Naxx. We are having issues in the front and not the back, which is strange considering all I hear is how difficult the back is.

    The problem we are having is the switch of Thane and the Baron with the two front tanks. One tank is a warrior and the other tank is a pally. When we make the switch we seem not to be able to taunt the other boss off of the other tank and so when one of us begin to make our way back to our corner we bring both bosses instead of the one. It is never consistent where one tank is having problems taunting. One time the warrior had problems and the other time the pally had problems with their taunt.

    Can you tell me what you use for your taunts (pally and warrior) that work for you and do you have DPS range stop DPSing until the tanks have made the switch? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  14. #94
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    I'm constantly off-tanking Baron off in the near right corner while our other pally tank has Thane in the near left corner in 10-man. When the time comes to switch, we simply move towards the middle and use Hand of Reckoning on each others mobs and move back to the corner we were at...so I wind up with Thane in my corner for a little while. Our DPS doesn't stop while we're switching and I can't remember a time when threat became an issue...except for the one time our FFB mage kept proc'ing hot streak constantly.

  15. #95
    The other day we were running a 10m naxx gear run for some new guildies we need to gear quickly. So our raid comp was not the greatest 1 prot pally, 2 dks (both dps), 1 prot warrior, 1 lock, 1 disc priest, 2 rogues and 1 Resto Shaman.

    So we had in the back the prot pally and disc priest. Prot pally would flash himself and the disc priest would heal himself and pick up the pally's slack healing what the flashes didn't.

    The front was an all out dps race with Thane and Baron being tanked by the prot warrior in the same corner. Resto shaman blew Bloodlust and chain healed like mad and the dps took Thane down first and switched to Baron. After they had the first too down they waited for both sets of marks to drop and then joined in with the 2 in the back.

    It was pretty epic and we did it on the first attempt this way, but the only players that were not already geared in a mixture of Naxx/Uldar 25m gear was one of the rogues and dps dks. Probably not a good strat for those without gear.

  16. #96
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    addon

    Nice video!
    but does anyone know the name of that addon in the left upper corner?
    where the raidgrps minatyrs are moving?
    ty!

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwanecek View Post
    The problem we are having is the switch of Thane and the Baron with the two front tanks. One tank is a warrior and the other tank is a pally. When we make the switch we seem not to be able to taunt the other boss off of the other tank and so when one of us begin to make our way back to our corner we bring both bosses instead of the one. It is never consistent where one tank is having problems taunting. One time the warrior had problems and the other time the pally had problems with their taunt.

    Can you tell me what you use for your taunts (pally and warrior) that work for you and do you have DPS range stop DPSing until the tanks have made the switch? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    taunts seems to be resisted, that means they have a very low hit rating

  18. #98
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    i have no clue if anyone has mentioned this but i love another stragity its hard to learn but it can cut down on the time it takes to kill things, for thoses whom to the fight you know baron and thane will run while the other will stay put no matter what you do, the stragity bases its self on that there are two types of the bosses, solid and moving.you have your group split into two
    1 tank and the best healer will be named group x
    1 tank and the rest of dps and healers will be named group y
    solid bosses Kor, lady beaumux
    running bosses. Baron, thane
    first split into your groups, X will go in the back left and Y in the back right and begin the fight, once started group X will hold lady beaumex and thane will run up (note he will not cast his aoe) group X will think hold them to three stacks while the most dps foused on thane. while that happens group Y will hold Kor and baron will run up to them, without going for the acvhivment all dps will burst down baron. Whenthe stacks reach three someone wil shout out switch (this is a good time to make a macro to taunt the other moving boss) the tanks will meet up in the middle group X will taunt baron and run to kor and group Y will taunt thane and run to beaumux, then the dps will burst down lady beaumux. if a moving boss is gone just run over and taunt the solid boss. then you just keep doing it till all of them are dead or you are. this is a very fast raid if you have good healers and dps, but its hard to learn and expect a whipe the first time(this alwasy is a great way to get the achivement) but i would not try this with a new one.

    if theres any questions message me
    Last edited by callendeath; 06-15-2009 at 12:26 AM. Reason: spelling and better explination

  19. #99
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    Source: mwanecek
    The problem we are having is the switch of Thane and the Baron with the two front tanks. One tank is a warrior and the other tank is a pally. When we make the switch we seem not to be able to taunt the other boss off of the other tank and so when one of us begin to make our way back to our corner we bring both bosses instead of the one. It is never consistent where one tank is having problems taunting. One time the warrior had problems and the other time the pally had problems with their taunt.

    Can you tell me what you use for your taunts (pally and warrior) that work for you and do you have DPS range stop DPSing until the tanks have made the switch? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


    Given it was both tanks its prob not a hit issue but have the tanks handing over stopped actually tanking him ... remember taunt only makes you even + a tiny bit if the other tank whacks it wont go.

    The pally really should have no issue taunt + excorcism should ensure it comes (he has RD as a backup if that fails) and if the warrior stuck vigilance on the pally he can taunt or mocking blow up to 3 times in 15 sec.

    Sounds like a tank issue IMO.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  20. #100
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    if you know what your doing i qould suggest my strat. posted above but to make it alot easyer for your tanks i would make some taunt macros example.

    /target baron
    /cast (class taunt)

    it will help your tanks allot to have this

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