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Thread: Vigilance?? is it worth it?

  1. #1
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    Vigilance?? is it worth it?

    As a 70 Prot Warrior doing instances such as UK and Nexus w/o Vigilance in my spec i have found that it is un neccesary for me. (atleast in 5 mans) Any 80 Tanks out there who think that threat is enough of a problem now a days with all the changes made to it to that vigilance is even worth speccing into?

  2. #2
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    Its not necessary, but for one (ONE) talent point, you're basically giving one DPSer a 20% greater threat margin on you, and all of the other DPSers at least 10% more of a margin.

  3. #3
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    It could realy help in situations when everything goes out of control, like when your healer like to overagro with heals before you are able to get enough agro on group of mobs. Taunt reseted on global CD could be usefull then

  4. #4
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    Wait till your mages decide to get the Metanoia buff for boss fights. You'll be really glad you have it.

    Seriously though we haven't been running with a rogue for TOTT lately and I can sustain around 5k-7k TPS on bosses depending on luck with crits and parries. I've had quite a few classes right on my heels as it is and they still have quite a bit more gear to get before they max. So for raiding it is definitely worth looking into, it really really helps if you are aoeing packs.

    Its also fun to put on other tanks and watch them wonder why they are having aggro problems!

  5. #5
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    I really like Vigilance in raids. Usually you have one really good mage or warlock in your raid (like one mage I'm playing with) that does sick DPS on trash.
    Helps to clear things even faster (since everything in raids is AOE'd now anyways) and allows the mage to go out with everything immediately.
    Not really needed for bosses tho, but it's nice to have on Loatheb for example so you can make such a big threat lead that allows you to take some sparks for additional DPS :P

  6. #6
    Vigilence is great ability to generate from your imba dps to your threat....Im using this ability

  7. #7
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    for one point, i think its totally worth it..specially if you start running with "good" dps...im talking guys doin 3-4k dps a sec....and the type of players who dont wanna wait...as in..your job is to hold agro no matter what the dps can throw at you. in addition it makes the person who has it take alil less damage...totally worth one point.

  8. #8
    I agree with the above, there is a mage in EGW that can pump out over 4k dps on patchwerk and without vigilance can pump out 5-6k TPS, which given average max TPS with spamming heroic strike, etc, is about the max TPS output I can put out without getting a few lucky SS crits.

    Threat may be a non issue for most right now, but once some of the top DPS'ers get geared it will still be an issue IMO. That 1 talent point is very worth it for your best DPSer because then they can pewpew their heart out, and the faster the boss dies, the better it is for everyone.

    And in situations where you have OT's taking a crap ton of damage it can help too. Patchwerk in 25 mans hits the OT's for 20k every second. If the MT puts his vigilance on an OT, and say one of the OT's is a warrior as well, then he can put his vigilence on the other OT and you just got 6% dmg reduction for the fight on a fight where OT dmg is no joke.

  9. #9
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    If you have no problem with threat, then put it on a healer for the 3% damage reduction + AoE threat from the healing (which is great when there are sudden adds and they make a beeline towards the top healer).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shushikiary View Post
    If the MT puts his vigilance on an OT, and say one of the OT's is a warrior as well, then he can put his vigilence on the other OT and you just got 6% dmg reduction for the fight on a fight where OT dmg is no joke.
    I'm pretty sure the damage reduction doesn't stack. I'd also presume it doesn't stack with grace or blessing of santuary's 3% damage reduction. Can anyone confirm?

    You could probably chain vigilance to push more threat to the MT though. MT warrior -> OT warrior -> OT warrior -> ... -> Top DPSer.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shushikiary View Post
    And in situations where you have OT's taking a crap ton of damage it can help too. Patchwerk in 25 mans hits the OT's for 20k every second. If the MT puts his vigilance on an OT, and say one of the OT's is a warrior as well, then he can put his vigilence on the other OT and you just got 6% dmg reduction for the fight on a fight where OT dmg is no joke.
    This is exactly how we used it last night, the MT put their vigilance on me, and I put my Vigilance on the second OT.

  12. #12
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    I personally don't use it, DPS has yet to pull threat off of me in either 5, 10 or 25 mans. TPS is just stupid at this point, I regularly pull over 5k TPS with peaks above that. Not that i'm complaing, just saying..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moldran View Post
    I really like Vigilance in raids. Usually you have one really good mage or warlock in your raid (like one mage I'm playing with) that does sick DPS on trash.
    Helps to clear things even faster (since everything in raids is AOE'd now anyways) and allows the mage to go out with everything immediately.
    Not really needed for bosses tho, but it's nice to have on Loatheb for example so you can make such a big threat lead that allows you to take some sparks for additional DPS :P
    I take sparks and then taunt him back almost from the outset. With the ridiculously short CD of taunt and Challenging shout as a back up it just has not been an issue for us.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taninor View Post
    I personally don't use it, DPS has yet to pull threat off of me in either 5, 10 or 25 mans. TPS is just stupid at this point, I regularly pull over 5k TPS with peaks above that. Not that i'm complaing, just saying..
    I've had dps ask for it, I know they don't need it threat wise but melee appreciates the reduced damage. I find myself putting it on our DK or retadin.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moldran View Post
    I really like Vigilance in raids.
    I agree^. Also Corgin, I agree in that I think Vig. is only worth getting after 80, and not for leveling.
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. -Hunter Thompson

  16. #16
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    Our cat druid finally got up to raiding spec and it is yet another reason I am very glad I have vigilence. He can get up to 5000 dps and his threat reduction is trash.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by manatank View Post
    I'm pretty sure the damage reduction doesn't stack. I'd also presume it doesn't stack with grace or blessing of santuary's 3% damage reduction. Can anyone confirm?

    You could probably chain vigilance to push more threat to the MT though. MT warrior -> OT warrior -> OT warrior -> ... -> Top DPSer.

    I dont know if it does stack, but it doesnt matter in my example.

    In the example I gave there are 2 different people with vigilance on them. There are 2 OT's and 1 MT. MT is a warrior, 1 OT is a warrior, and 1 OT is a druid. The MT puts vigilance on the warrior OT who then puts his vigilance on the druid. That way, both OT's get 3% dmg reduction, and sense the dmg done in the fight is usually split 50/50 for hatefulls on the OT's (healers cant heal 20k in 1 second once you include response time and lag, etc, so 2 OT's makes it easier and they generally alternate hatefulls), that's where I got the 6% dmg reduction. It's 3% for one OT plus 3 % for the other OT.

    Though, in overall fight between the 3 tanks, It's more likely to be less than 6% because the MT takes about 20-30% of the overal dmg of the fight, and the OT's take the rest.

  18. #18
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    The best value of Vigilance, as I see it, is far more interesting than what it may first appear.

    1.) If you need a 10% threat boost (20% margin increase) then you have bigger problems in the current system since you've been give all the tools to bury your dps without working too hard, assuming comparable gear. It takes a big disparity before the gap starts to really close in all but initial burst situations.

    2.) 3% damage reduction is a lovely ancillary bonus, but as a standalone it's a bit ho hum if you aren't a tank.


    Vigilance is a tool I like to use for advanced maneuvers and tactics, like easy and quick tank swapping, for having DPS who can pick stuff up for you quickly when you may not be able to.

    It won't be a make or break talent, but it is a useful tool and great value for a single point.

    On a side note, it doesn't stack with BoSanc, in fact they'll overwrite each other so you won't even have the other if one falls off.
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  19. #19
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    You may not be losing agro in 5 mans or raids, but I'm not sure if you've had dps that's made an effort to try to pull agro off you. A fury warrior aiming to pull off a secondary or tertiary target can certainly accomplish this without any help. No matter how good your tps is, when it comes to 5 mans, your dps has to hold back at certain points, and at the beginning of a boss fight, a few unwanted parries or dodges can be fatal.

    Fortunately, just about every mob in Northrend has been tauntable, and most bosses are as well. Just place vigilance on your top dpser, and he'll be very very happy. In all truth, he probably wouldn't pull threat in a raiding situation anyway, but it will certainly give him more room to go all out.

    Vigilance is great for what it costs - 1 talent point. It's worth it, and I think it's one of the abilities that really distinguish warrior tanks from the other tanks.

  20. #20
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    I didn't have this at 70 but I did pick it up mid-nexus run when I was having trouble holding AOE aggro against a mage guildie who had a couple levels on me and it did solve the problem. (though saying it gives everyone else a 10% bonus to the threat ceiling is not quite accurate, the ceiling just goes up by 10% of the recipient's threat, which if they're riding that 130% line is going to be larger than 10% of your threat.) It looks to be useful for threat in the small scale stuff but I'd expect the damage reduction component to become more useful in larger raids. Besides as people have pointed out... it's only one point.
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